StuBear65

[QUOTE=dc koop;12300277]Come off it. Cops in this country daily face far more dangerous situations than in the UK. In fact there's absolutely no comparison.

Your British policeman's idea of a dangerous situation is to respond to a call from someone in a block of council flats reporting that the neighbours next door are having a fight and he's threatening her with a table knife./QUOTE]

I agree that there is no comparison between policing in the UK and the USA, but that's because our societies are completely different.

I think your idea of a British police officers view of dangerous situation in the UK is somewhat simplistic and I say that with 21 years frontline policing experience in the UK.

albanks2542

There are many different types of cowards. I am not saying they don't have the guts to take bullets and put their lives on the line. But many of the cops don't have the guts to stand up to their fellow officers who are dirty and trigger happy and racist and over zealous do they? And they are all poorly trained, they are trained to shoot first and ask questions later. With great power comes great responsibility something many cops in america seem to forget.

What do you think should happen here Ian? I think officer Noor the shooter should be fired and prosecuted for manslaughter but he won't be. The fact he won't give a statement shows what kind of person he is doesn't it? And officer Harrity should give testimony against him saying he acted unreasonably which he did, but he wont will he? They will cover it up and lie to protect each other which isn't right is it?

Awesome Welles

To what extent do you feel you can back-up these statements? I ask in all sincerity.

Please share your experience, regarding law enforcement training, that leads you to make statements like this - or is it all hysterical, made-up bollocks?

DebzinUS

First, Justine Diamond didn't deserve to die, she should not have died.

My son is a rookie cop. On the job a little over a year. During the academy it was drummed into his head that every encounter with a civilian, no matter how innocuous it may seem initially, could be deadly, consider that everyone is armed, and everyone you meet may want you dead. He deals on a daily basis with the scum of the earth. There were eight shootings in the town where we live last week, and one a triple homicide. He wears a body cam that I gave him for his birthday. He has to activate it when needed, that's how they work. He is a responsible, bright, educated young man, who does a thankless job that few want in this country. He is certainly no coward.

albanks2542

The post below answer your question perfectly. They train you to think everyone wants to kill you and if that is not poor training I don't know what is.

You might want to read what happened to baltimore cop who told the truth. Harriity grasses on his mate his career is done for telling the truth and that is the police officers first duty telling the truth and upholding the public trust isn't it?

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crim...icle-1.2077632

albanks2542

But Noor and Harrity will make out like she did deserve to die instead of holding their hands up and saying yeah we made a mistake. They are not fit to tie your son's bootlaces. That training mentality is wrong in my opinion and that is the cause of a lot of the problems. Does training like that not create the mentality I will kill them before they kill me?. Noor was an affirmative action hire the first Somali officer in the department he is clearly not up to the job is he?

Chesten

I read a lot of threads with interest and note the different viewpoints.

I don't know anything about policing in general let alone US. I of course am aware of BLM and had thought (and still do) how appalling that a whole section of the population really need to be afraid if stopped by cops.

But comments above about how you shouldn't approach a cop car, certainly at night... are they for real? I am unwilling to accept that her niaivity was a major factor, but if it was, and if that's considered acceptable, I need to know.

If you call 911 and believe you have info on an ongoing offence, is it really the case that at all costs you shouldn't go and point them in the right direction? Sure the lights are flashing and it's a live situation, but they are responding to your call. It's a genuine question.

I mean, there's a certain equity in everyone being afraid of the cops (and that's deliberately flippant, I know the stats, I know there is no equity).

I appreciate I've just come from leafy Berkshire. They sometimes cycle though the neighbourhood stuff is much reduced. They visit nursery and let the kids sit in their car. I've gone out of my way to say to my son that police officers are there to help you, help everyone, catching bad guys is only one aspect. But should I, in all seriousness, be instilling that you don't go near a cop? Certainly I'll be saying you listen very carefully and do whatever they say, but not going near a car? It's a huge culture shift and I want to know if it's true.

lansbury

I take it from that comment that you have no personal experience of being an officer on the streets. Unfortunately it is the only way to be trained. If you knew what you were talking about, had been through police training, you might have an idea that UK officers are taught along similar lines. All encounters have the potential to result in injury or death. Go into any situation with the expectation that it could turn potentially deadly. To do anything other is to be unprepared, unaware and to have your guard down. I speak as someone who had a gun pulled on him at a routine traffic stop, by a supposedly respectable middle aged man with his young son in the car. Have you ever experienced such an event or been in such a situation that you just might have a slight understanding what the cold gut wrenching, numbing fear feels like, and wish to avoid it.

You clearly don't know what poor training is, or very much else for that matter.

DebzinUS

I asked my son what he thought happened. He replied, "I don't know mum, I wasn't there" And you know something? We weren't either. None of us know what happened. We also don't know what is going to happen to either officer as a result. I am not certain what being a Somali has to do with anything. Give the Dept. time to investigate, I know, I know... the Dept. will cover it up. But while you wait, Google Youtube "officers shot" and then tell me why they are trained to think that every encounter could be deadly. You are entitled to your opinion, but walk a mile in the shoes of a police officer in the US before you judge their training.

anotherlimey

Bit harsh on the woman.

What's the protocol for approaching an APC in Iraq - strip and approach walking backwards with your hands in the air? If only she knew.

Cops in this country are slowly eroding public support for them in all segments of society.

The constant drip of badly trained cops shooting anything that frightens them, and the inevitable excuses after the fact, e.g. "they have a tough job dealing with scumbags", and their circle-the-wagons mentality, is getting old quickly.

I'm not saying cops are inherently bad. But yes their training lacks something, obviously, and something will have to change.

albanks2542

I have no law enforcement experience nor would I wish to do that job not in america anyway. They seem to shoot a lot more blacks than whites. They usage deadly force on the blacks and white might get a taser or pepper spray in a similar situation. There is a disparity and that stinks to me. I am glad I don't live over their.

moi

Just adding another twist - the Australian lady called the cops because of a suspected rape/sexual assault that she stated in the 911 call.

What if the allegedly person of the sexual assault had seen the police car and then ran up to the police car from behind to the driver window for help and then been shot by the cop. Could have easily happened too. Shoot the victim and then answer questions later. But in this cops case, he won't even say a word about what happened and the law allows that.

I do not have much faith in the police force in the US in general. I just read an article on how differently the US police are trained in comparison to Australian/UK police because here is a whole different society with the guns in general.

Awesome Welles

Yet you confidently state that "They are trained to shoot first and ask questions later".

Your statement is not true. They are trained to be wary and vigilant. Dropping their guard is what gets them killed. Since my daughter has been a sworn deputy, we have attended 4 funerals of fellow officers, who were either less than vigilant, or who gave a criminal the benefit of the doubt and paid for it with their lives.

At the time we moved to the US, my daughter was at the Met Training College in Hendon. She was being coached in a very similar way - the only difference being that Met cops are far less likely to be shot to death and their defensive tactics were consequently more focused on bodily assault.

Your comments are very misinformed - and it may be that you just have an inherent dislike of law enforcement - you are by no means unique, if that is the case. Not liking cops is not quite the same as making up bullshit about cops.

By all means, state your opinion - but let's just keep it an opinion.

All of the other ridiculous, bigoted stuff you have written in this thread does give the reader a somewhat unattractive insight about you.

Rete

You call 911 and if the situation requires it, i.e. there is someone trying to break into your house, the operator will stay on the phone with you while you hide in the house. Otherwise you do not leave your house or apartment to approach the officers. They will come to you. They do not have any means of identifying you as the caller. Stay in your home. They will ring your bell.

In your scenario, you would give that information to the 911 operator who will relay it to the responding officers. If they require clarification, they will come to you.

If you are stopped for a traffic violation or for whatever unknown reason you place your hands on the steering wheel after rolling down the window and do not leave your automobile. Your hands must always be in plain view. This is to ensure the officer that you are not holding a weapon in a hand that is out of view. You only exit the auto when you asked to.

It is a matter of common sense in most cases.

ian-mstm

Perhaps... but realistic.


What, exactly, is lacking so obviously?

Ian