Standby Generators
Aug 6th 2021, 8:26 pm
#16
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Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
Posts: 1,381
Re: Standby Generators
This is a sub panel in my house and you can see the double breaker on far right. Two 120v circuits in one 120v space. Two of these would open up a double space for a 220 volt breaker.
That should be no problem. You can get 1/2 space breakers to create enough space. With square D which I am familiar, they are readily available. The thing to do is look at your panel for brand, write down or photograph any model numbers/ serial numbers then go to a electrical supply store that caters to electricians and they can find the breakers for you. I wired my own house 5 years ago and have several of these 1/2 breakers in my panel. You will have to clear out the top position next to main cutoff to install the lockout.
Aug 6th 2021, 10:35 pm
#17
DE-UK-NZ-IE-US... the TYP
Joined: Mar 2010
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Aug 6th 2021, 10:46 pm
#18
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Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
Posts: 1,381
Re: Standby Generators
[QUOTE=tht;13038050]you need the spare breaker up by the main switch, and it needs to be on the main
panel[/QUOTE
Correct. You would have to move some breakers around using the double half breakers for the actual space creation.
panel[/QUOTE
Correct. You would have to move some breakers around using the double half breakers for the actual space creation.
Aug 7th 2021, 3:35 am
#19
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: Standby Generators
I got solar panels about a year after the generator and it annoys me no end when we have an outage on a sunny day and the panels sit on the roof producing nothing while we burn natural gas to power the house. I wouldn't get Powerwall(s) with no solar but if I could have my time over again I would have spent the generator money on 2 Powerwalls instead.
I was informed by the line workers that net metered solar is shut down when the grid power is down for safety reasons. It is necessary to know what lines are energized and what are not.
I was curious why no solar on sunny day.
Aug 7th 2021, 11:28 am
#20
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Joined: Sep 2008
Location: Rural Virginia
Posts: 1,076
Re: Standby Generators
The dual fuel set up is good, try to use ethanol free petrol / gas.
The golden rule is start and run the unit under load once a month. Very few people do this, digging it out from the back of the garage or shed where it has sat for a few years almost guarantees it will not run.
The golden rule is start and run the unit under load once a month. Very few people do this, digging it out from the back of the garage or shed where it has sat for a few years almost guarantees it will not run.
Aug 7th 2021, 3:40 pm
#21
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Joined: Feb 2015
Location: New Jersey, USA
Posts: 566
Re: Standby Generators
Our neighborhood grid is currently going through the process of upgrade and repair (the newest parts are 70 years old if not more). So, there are occasional preplanned outages. (I am actually impressed with how infrequent and short the outages are).
I was informed by the line workers that net metered solar is shut down when the grid power is down for safety reasons. It is necessary to know what lines are energized and what are not.
I was curious why no solar on sunny day.
I was informed by the line workers that net metered solar is shut down when the grid power is down for safety reasons. It is necessary to know what lines are energized and what are not.
I was curious why no solar on sunny day.
Aug 7th 2021, 4:28 pm
#22
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Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
Posts: 1,381
Re: Standby Generators
The dual fuel set up is good, try to use ethanol free petrol / gas.
The golden rule is start and run the unit under load once a month. Very few people do this, digging it out from the back of the garage or shed where it has sat for a few years almost guarantees it will not run.
The golden rule is start and run the unit under load once a month. Very few people do this, digging it out from the back of the garage or shed where it has sat for a few years almost guarantees it will not run.
Aug 7th 2021, 8:24 pm
#23
DE-UK-NZ-IE-US... the TYP
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,855
Re: Standby Generators
Aug 11th 2021, 3:20 am
#24
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Nov 2007
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 13,111
Re: Standby Generators
Like previously mentioned it all depends on how often and how long you lose power. I bought a interlock and poured a small pad plus ran a conduit for wires but in the end abandoned the whole thing due to having a stable electrical supplier with rare and short outages. I like to keep things simple and you could consider a small Honda gas generator (known for quietness) and some heavy extension cords. Buy one just big enough to run your freezer, fridge and some lights and TV. By using heavy extension cords you could place generator anywhere outside safe from exhaust fumes. If your panel has the space for a double breaker using a lockout would be more convenient and not cost that much but would still consider same small size generator.
...
We decided on a iGen4500DF. It will run the fridge/freezer and the freezer in the garage and have about 40% capacity left for lights, TV and other items we can switch in and out as needed. It is an inverter so quieter and is rated for sensitive electronics,
We decided on a iGen4500DF. It will run the fridge/freezer and the freezer in the garage and have about 40% capacity left for lights, TV and other items we can switch in and out as needed. It is an inverter so quieter and is rated for sensitive electronics,
and duel fuel so we can keep a couple of propane cylinders and no have to worry about gasoline going off. We can always start it on propane and then buy fresh gas for the high power and longer running.
Plus if we find it isn't big enough we can buy another one and run them in parallel. It is also about 120lbs lighter than one big enough for the whole house, and therefore easy to store in the garage and pull out when needed. Cooking, hot water and downstairs fire are all gas, so we only need to cover downstairs power and lights in an emergency.
Will research getting a transfer switch or interlock. The fridge/freezer in the kitchen is difficult to move out and get behind to unplug and connect to extension cables. Mrs L is not built for getting into tight spaces if she was on her own.
... I had a Kohler natural gas standby generator installed a few years ago and regret buying it to be honest - while it's great to have power during an outage it is very loud when running despite what the adverts claim and it broke down just over a year after installation. Thankfully I had purchased the extended parts and labor warranty because it took three months of visits and replacing every part imaginable before the dealer threw in the towel and Kohler authorized a complete replacement unit.
A few times we've lost power in the middle of the night and the generator starting up wakes me up.
I wish I had gone with Tesla Powerwall instead.
A few times we've lost power in the middle of the night and the generator starting up wakes me up.
I wish I had gone with Tesla Powerwall instead.
You can run a gas line to other locations, but the close to the meter the better. The wiring to run 240v is alos not cheap, ours is very "beefy". I am now also figuring out what I plan to do for my lake house, that has a well pump, so the 120v unit I have there won't work to get water. AS the other poster mentioned, I think I will look to go solar with a power wall or 2. The entire property has an exposed south facing roof so it will do well on solar, but I ned to find an option that does not impact the curb appeal too much as it is also STR property.
I don't like the transfer switch, that makes you pre-select what circuits you are able to run, an interlock allows you to use any circuit, you just have to be more careful not to try and start/run to anything's together.
I don't like the transfer switch, that makes you pre-select what circuits you are able to run, an interlock allows you to use any circuit, you just have to be more careful not to try and start/run to anything's together.
Last edited by Steerpike; Aug 11th 2021 at 3:22 am.
Aug 11th 2021, 11:47 am
#25
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Joined: Jun 2015
Location: Near Lynchburg Tennessee, home of Jack Daniels
Posts: 1,381
Re: Standby Generators
Steerpike
I can respond to two of your questions. My plan was to have a outside receptacle that would be wired like any outside power but be the type that would mate up with the generator output power cord. This would run like any house wiring to main panel. How it would run would depend on type of house construction. It would terminate at panel into a double breaker in the position required to work with the interlock device. The other question about making sure which circuits to activate is critical to not overload the generator. Before turning on generator turn off all house breakers then one by one turn on just those you intend to run from generator power.
I can respond to two of your questions. My plan was to have a outside receptacle that would be wired like any outside power but be the type that would mate up with the generator output power cord. This would run like any house wiring to main panel. How it would run would depend on type of house construction. It would terminate at panel into a double breaker in the position required to work with the interlock device. The other question about making sure which circuits to activate is critical to not overload the generator. Before turning on generator turn off all house breakers then one by one turn on just those you intend to run from generator power.
Aug 11th 2021, 8:06 pm
#26
Thread Starter
Joined: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukie, Oregon
Posts: 9,966
Re: Standby Generators
Bit pricey but here is another way of getting through a wall. https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B0743BQD...v_ov_lig_dp_it
An inverter is quieter because the generator can adjust its speed according to the load. A low load and it runs slower, a normal generator the motor always runs at maximum speed. Also some inverter generators are enclosed, as opposed to being an open frame. Changing from gas to propane, or back is just a case of turning a knob.
Our gas cooker has an electric connection for the fans and igniters, but works if the power is off. I'm assuming the furnace will not work without power as that is needed for the fan and thermostat. The gas fire works ok on just gas.
An inverter is quieter because the generator can adjust its speed according to the load. A low load and it runs slower, a normal generator the motor always runs at maximum speed. Also some inverter generators are enclosed, as opposed to being an open frame. Changing from gas to propane, or back is just a case of turning a knob.
Our gas cooker has an electric connection for the fans and igniters, but works if the power is off. I'm assuming the furnace will not work without power as that is needed for the fan and thermostat. The gas fire works ok on just gas.
Aug 12th 2021, 11:43 am
#27
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Joined: Feb 2010
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 8,427
Re: Standby Generators
A tankless water heater will need electricity to ignite, but a tank heater is the last home of pilot light ignition (with the only electricity being in the thermocouple safety valve which is self generated). Our latest electrical upgrade required that bridges to ground be installed on the gas, hot water and cold water lines on the water heater.
Aug 12th 2021, 3:09 pm
#28
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Joined: Feb 2011
Location: WA state
Posts: 3,062
Re: Standby Generators
After three consecutive years of at least one power outage per winter, my in-laws neighbours bought a generator. Didn't have an outage for the next ten.
Like many others here, I prepared for outages by having a gas fireplace and gas cooker, which all works with no electricity. Keep a powerbank at max to charge up your phone.
Like many others here, I prepared for outages by having a gas fireplace and gas cooker, which all works with no electricity. Keep a powerbank at max to charge up your phone.
Aug 14th 2021, 3:01 am
#29
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Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 974
Re: Standby Generators
I have a 10,000kw portable tri-fule. I have an outlet to connect it to near the gas meter, and can connect it to a nat gas quick connect. I have a “interlock” on my main panel, that prevents back feeding to the grid. The wife would not allow me to get a Glock, so I have a steel motorbike securing ring attached to the foundation to chain it to. We only run it 7am to 11pm when the powers out because of noise. Last time I gave the neighbor a 20amp feed to avoid noise complaints. The whole setup including electrician and plumber for the gas work was about $2k. So way cheaper than a whole house setup. The one thing I had to add was a trickle charger to keep the battery charged to start it. Runs everything including the AC.
I have to say it is pretty loud and can be hear 3 houses over. But my neighbor directly behind has a 22KW Genrac whole house NG generator and that is also very loud. I know as it automatically runs a self test every month. Oh and they have had loads of problems with it even though it's ~3 years old. They actually persuaded me that it wasn't worth it!
Last edited by TimFountain; Aug 14th 2021 at 3:05 am.
