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British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)
-   The Trailer Park (https://britishexpats.com/forum/trailer-park-96/)
-   -   Planespotting (https://britishexpats.com/forum/trailer-park-96/planespotting-742453/)

Oakvillian Aug 25th 2015 6:41 am
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by audio (Post 11732680)
Back to the theory:

The last video I saw indicated to me that at the bottom of the loop the aircraft was stalling (looks like high speed buffet), perhaps the (sometimes used) 20 degree flap during low speed manoeuvres failed.
Just my theory.
There's the usual amount of speculation on PPRUNE.net - latest on there seems to be that he was doing a "quarter leaf" figure rather than a straight loop, but that his timing of the change of angle on the upward part of the loop meant that he never achieved a true vertical, the whole manoeuvre was canted over a bit. That means that at the top of the loop he did not have as much height as planned, leaving inadequate space between himself and the ground to complete the figure. It was possibly, at least in part, a function of the pilot's trying to fly a safe flightpath (south down the line of the river, and turning in the loop to line up with the display line) that led to such an awful outcome.

The CAA's response, IMO, has found the right balance between "public appeasement" and wrecking future airshows: they've carefully trodden a path that means that modern fast jet display teams can still operate (like the Red Arrows); large vintage jets can still perform flypasts (important in the final flying days for the Vulcan); and vintage piston aircraft have no more restrictions than currently (important during the 75th anniversary commemorations of the Battle of Britain). Seems about the right line to have taken, to my mind. Of course, all may change when the AAIB releases its findings, but that may take some considerable time.

Pulaski Aug 25th 2015 6:42 am
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by audio (Post 11732680)
Back to the theory:

The last video I saw indicated to me that at the bottom of the loop the aircraft was stalling (looks like high speed buffet), perhaps the (sometimes used) 20 degree flap during low speed manoeuvres failed.
Just my theory.
I read something similar this morning, that the plane had turned through the top of the loop too low, so didn't have the altitude to level out at the bottom. The pilot then pulled up too hard to try to avoid the crash, and stalled, which would explain how the pilot came to crash the plane and survive, albeit with life threatening injuries.

audio Aug 25th 2015 6:44 am
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 11732675)
the best airforce in the world
Thanks, I'm glad you said that. :thumbsup: :britflag:

audio Aug 25th 2015 6:59 am
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 11732691)
There's the usual amount of speculation on PPRUNE.net - latest on there seems to be that he was doing a "quarter leaf" figure rather than a straight loop, but that his timing of the change of angle on the upward part of the loop meant that he never achieved a true vertical, the whole manoeuvre was canted over a bit. That means that at the top of the loop he did not have as much height as planned, leaving inadequate space between himself and the ground to complete the figure. It was possibly, at least in part, a function of the pilot's trying to fly a safe flightpath (south down the line of the river, and turning in the loop to line up with the display line) that led to such an awful outcome.

The CAA's response, IMO, has found the right balance between "public appeasement" and wrecking future airshows: they've carefully trodden a path that means that modern fast jet display teams can still operate (like the Red Arrows); large vintage jets can still perform flypasts (important in the final flying days for the Vulcan); and vintage piston aircraft have no more restrictions than currently (important during the 75th anniversary commemorations of the Battle of Britain). Seems about the right line to have taken, to my mind. Of course, all may change when the AAIB releases its findings, but that may take some considerable time.
They’re probably talking about a ‘Cuban eight’ a horizontal eight’ figure (that’s a roll off the top of a loop).
Yes so much speculation.

Oakvillian Aug 25th 2015 7:44 am
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by audio (Post 11732706)
They’re probably talking about a ‘Cuban eight’ a horizontal eight’ figure (that’s a roll off the top of a loop).
Yes so much speculation.
no, it was (apparently) a quarter cloverleaf, or quarter leaf. The roll achieves a directional change on the entry to the loop, so that the exit is at an angle to the line of entry. There was a graphic on pprune, I'll see if I can find it...

try this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psr9zyclx3.jpg
The blue line is what was originally published on the BBC website, I think. The red and yellow ones were added by the good folks on the pilots' forum who purport to know what they're talking about. I can quite understand how the yellow dotted line would explain what happened and why it resulted in tragedy.

Pulaski Aug 25th 2015 7:56 am
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 11732747)
no, it was (apparently) a quarter cloverleaf, or quarter leaf. The roll achieves a directional change on the entry to the loop, so that the exit is at an angle to the line of entry. There was a graphic on pprune, I'll see if I can find it...

try this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psr9zyclx3.jpg
The blue line is what was originally published on the BBC website, I think. The red and yellow ones were added by the good folks on the pilots' forum who purport to know what they're talking about. I can quite understand how the yellow dotted line would explain what happened and why it resulted in tragedy.
With as many cell phone and dash-cam videos as seem to exist, I suspect that the investigators may have sufficient triangulation data to plot in 3d the path and speed of the ill-fated plane.

audio Aug 25th 2015 6:50 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by Oakvillian (Post 11732747)
no, it was (apparently) a quarter cloverleaf, or quarter leaf. The roll achieves a directional change on the entry to the loop, so that the exit is at an angle to the line of entry. There was a graphic on pprune, I'll see if I can find it...

try this: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v3...psr9zyclx3.jpg
The blue line is what was originally published on the BBC website, I think. The red and yellow ones were added by the good folks on the pilots' forum who purport to know what they're talking about. I can quite understand how the yellow dotted line would explain what happened and why it resulted in tragedy.
Yes thanks,you are correct, definitely not a Cuban Eight.

scrubbedexpat091 Sep 1st 2015 5:33 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
Not getting any better over at Republic Airways. They fly under the banner of a couple of the major US airlines.

Republic Airways gets a big dose of bad news today from its pilots - Chicago Business Journal


Apparently what the TWA, Reno Air and Air Cal heritage planes will look like at American Airlines. Seems so long ago now with Reno Air, I remember working their flights in San Diego, the morning flight to SJC would be full with 1 or 2 checked bags, such as easy flight to work... Good to see the mountains getting a chance to get back into the air.

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/f...psirsmzvr4.jpg


Pic was on airliners.net and got the link from there.


Canjet is ceasing flight operations, they had 1 737 left.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-s...down-1.3211240

scrubbedexpat091 Sep 2nd 2015 7:28 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
TSB releases wreckage photos from 1992 Kapuskasing plane crash - Sudbury - CBC News


Was recently found, but crashed in 1992. Remains of the people have yet to be found.

Pulaski Sep 4th 2015 7:12 am
Re: Planespotting
 
The provisional report says Shoreham pilot was too low when he started his loop/quarter leaf maneuver. He was only 200ft above ground level when he was only licenced for such a maneuver at a minimum of 500ft. :blink:

markonline1 Sep 8th 2015 12:08 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
A week before I fly into there too. Everyone evacuated safely.

Fire On British Airways Jet In Las Vegas

scrubbedexpat091 Sep 8th 2015 4:05 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by markonline1 (Post 11743692)
A week before I fly into there too. Everyone evacuated safely.

Fire On British Airways Jet In Las Vegas
Crazy. Guess it's good thing they were on the ground still.

Pulaski Sep 8th 2015 4:18 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by markonline1 (Post 11743692)
A week before I fly into there too. Everyone evacuated safely.

Fire On British Airways Jet In Las Vegas
From the linked report:

"In its 21-year history, the 777-200 has been involved in two fatal crashes, ......, and Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 that disappeared last year and was only recently recovered.

It was? :confused: I guess the media just wasn't interested enough to report that. :unsure:

More quality reporting from the Fox organization. :rolleyes:

scrubbedexpat091 Sep 8th 2015 6:57 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
Always amazed how calm pilots and ATC remain in an emergency...

https://clyp.it/jrvdzhrw

md95065 Sep 8th 2015 9:00 pm
Re: Planespotting
 
Originally Posted by Pulaski (Post 11743792)
From the linked report:

"In its 21-year history, the 777-200 has been involved in two fatal crashes, ......, and Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 that disappeared last year and was only recently recovered.

It was? :confused: I guess the media just wasn't interested enough to report that. :unsure:

More quality reporting from the Fox organization. :rolleyes:
They fixed it.
... and Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 that disappeared last year and has yet to be recovered


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