SultanOfSwing

That would do it, yes! My post was reasonably speculative as to the method of ignition, but I wanted to point out that shutting down the plant does not equal stopping the fuel rods emitting radiation. I did not include the bit about them being stored in water to cool them, however. Likely it was damage to this cooling 'pool' that resulted in the rods generating enough heat to start a fire.

Michael

I don't believe they were storing the rods but they were in the process of refueling or were preparing to refuel the reactor (reactor is like a swimming pool). When they refuel, they change the rods.

N1cky

Quote from the article, full article in the link below

At the time of the earthquake, reactors 4, 5 and 6 were shut down for planned maintenance.

During this period, fuel rods are withdrawn from the reactor and stored in a pool - looking like a big swimming pool - in the upper level of the reactor building, outside the containment vessel.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-12745186

Michael

I agree that there is a lot of speculation but I really dislike it when a right wing self proclaimed expert comes on tv and claims that there isn't any problems with the nuclear plants in Japan.

Yesterday on Sean Hanity, he had guest who was a self proclaimed expert (he claimed he was an expert since he studied Chernobyl and Three Mile Island but not trained in the nuclear field or any science) from the Heartland Institute (one of the right wing groups that claim that global warming isn't real) and he claimed that there isn't any problems. I believe he also stated that Tokyo is too far to get the radiation cloud since the plant would have to have an explosion like Chernobyl to throw the cloud high enough in the air to reach Tokyo. However, last night Japanese officials put out an alert that the radiation could possibly reach Tokyo within 24 hours.

SultanOfSwing

Jesus effing Christ, what a stupid cnut he is. I mean, nuclear power in of itself is OK, but I think most people would agree that there are one or two issues over in Japan right now

Nobody on the right knows a f**king thing about science, engineering of progress thereof anyway, bunch of anti-intellectualist arsewipes to a man, they are.

Michael

Thanks for the article. I didn't realize there was a second pool outside the containment vessel. The article now clarifies why the Japanese government could possibly use helicopters to dump water (previously they claimed it was a grease fire) since it is not in the containment vessel.

The plants also store spent fuel in drums outside the containment vessel. In France and a few other countries, the spent fuel is reprocessed. In the US those drums were supposed be stored at Yuca mountain in Utah but after the federal government spent $3 billion building the salt mine caverns, Utah now opposes the plan.

S Folinsky

The meaning of magnitude can be hard to understand. I am having memories of the 1994 Northridge temblor. It was rated 6.7 at the time and later downrated to 6.4. But the epicenter was right under the intersection of Reseda Blvd. and Saticoy in Reseda. [Northridge is a tonier address than Reseda -- Reseda gets no respect, but I digress].

It was at 4:31 in the morning and it went on FOREVER and it WOULD NOT STOP. In actuality, it was less than a minute. I have seen a BBC video which was 1:05 long and it ended before the shaking did.

Funny thing about news photos from Northridge -- the damage was extensive, to be sure, but it was not uniform. 99% of structures were just fine. In my house, the water heater broke its water lines [I fixed that afternoon]. The weirdest thing was top of one toilet tank was thrown up and shattered the tank when it came back down. Wife picked up a toilet that afternoon and we replaced it.

We were without power for 16 hours. We recovered telephone service at 7:30 am [four hours after the quake]. We called the New Jersey relatives -- and they were telling us what it looked like on TV!

Immediately after the quake -- with all the power out, it was the most beautiful night sky one can imagine. However, every burglar and car alarm in the city had gone off. It is the weird things that are remembered.

Final note: I am impressed with how the Japanese are handling this.

Michael

I also dislike it when some tree hugger claims that no nuclear power plants should be built claiming that they are all too dangerous. But when they are asked about the health effects of fossil fuel plants, they also want to get rid of all of those. They even want to get rid of hydroelectric plants since they do damage to the environment.

SultanOfSwing

We find ourselves in agreement. I try to stay pretty apolitical when it comes to matters of science. I answer only to three laws: physicis, thermodynamics and natural selection.

Sally Redux

As the US is so litigious, I guess we can sue for medical costs if we get cancer from a nuclear plant oh wait they'll say it was from all the other sources.

N1cky

It takes that long to get a lawsuit through we'll have all died of the affects by then. We could always turn this into another debate on how we can all go back to the UK and get free NHS treatment though.

Sally Redux

True

Michael

France's ASN nuclear safety authority said on Tuesday the nuclear accident at Tokyo Electric Power Co's (9501.T) Fukushima Daiichi plant could now be classed as level six out of an international scale of one to seven.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/...72E2M920110315

To me it seems that it is currently a Level 5 failure but probably one the way to a Level 6 failure since the definition of Level 6 is "Significant release of radioactive material likely to require implementation of planned countermeasures".

Michael

I was working in San Jose when the 1989 6.9 Loma Preita earthquake occurred which had the epic center about 20 miles south of San Jose. Although buildings shook violently in San Jose, there wasn't much damage in the south bay except some brick chimneys collapsed and some old Victorian houses moved off their foundation.

However, San Francisco at about 60 miles away from the epic center had major damage due to homes built on landfill in the Marina district and the east bay freeway collapsed as well as a section of the bay bridge.

paddingtongreen

I'm kind of insulted that you think we engineers would be so dumb as to design the emergency generators to less stringent standards than the main plant! The one at point were flooded out by the tsunami, bad placement, but this was a huge tsunami.

The spent fuel pool is normally cooled, it especially needs it when shut down for refueling, the spent rods that have just come from the reactor are still temperature hot.

We design to limit weakness not strength, it is at least capable of withstanding the stated earthquake, probably more but how much more is not known.