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sid nv Jan 22nd 2020 5:33 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by Steerpike (Post 12793699)
This is fascinating. The one unknown seems to be, how much does one get in 'cash tips' . . .

It's not an unknown at all - customers almost never tip in cash. Low / No tip drive orders typically appear on the app as $3 offers, which depending on mileage is either $2 base pay + $1 tip, or $3 base pay + $0 tip.
On the very rare occasion that the customer does give a cash tip, my wife grabs it and heads to the nearest slot machine. For those who have not visited NV, it is not necessary to locate a casino to feed cash into a slot machine. We have slot machines everywhere - airports, supermarkets, libraries, museums, senior centers, etc.

As for digitally giving a fiver to another person, of course this is possible. I thought you were an IT Consultant? Please do keep up.


Steerpike Jan 22nd 2020 6:04 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by sid nv (Post 12794049)
It's not an unknown at all - customers almost never tip in cash. Low / No tip drive orders typically appear on the app as $3 offers, which depending on mileage is either $2 base pay + $1 tip, or $3 base pay + $0 tip.
On the very rare occasion that the customer does give a cash tip, my wife grabs it and heads to the nearest slot machine. For those who have not visited NV, it is not necessary to locate a casino to feed cash into a slot machine. We have slot machines everywhere - airports, supermarkets, libraries, museums, senior centers, etc.

So are you saying that the tip is essentially stated up front in the 'offer'? I had imagined ... naively it would seem ... that you would accept a job (let's say for $3) and then when you actually deliver the order to the door, the person might hand you a few bucks extra in cash as a tip, on top of any previously arranged deal.

Originally Posted by sid nv (Post 12794049)
As for digitally giving a fiver to another person, of course this is possible. I thought you were an IT Consultant? Please do keep up.

I'm not aware of any 'app' or 'service' where I can easily give a few dollars to a fellow 'smart phone owner', regardless of that person's app usage, and without me having to enter their name/details, nor them having to enter my name / details. I just did some research and it does not seem like such a thing exists yet. What I'm talking about is an app where I could pull up a screen, enter (eg) $5, then literally 'touch' my phone to yours and magically, have that $5 appear in some account under your control. Most of the pieces are in place for this to work (Samsung phones, at least, can 'transfer' information to another Samsung phone using Near Field Communications (NFC) but it's not a generalized solution ... yet). Two Apple iPhone users can fairly easily transfer money between themselves using Apple Pay - https://www.imore.com/how-send-money...-cash-messages but you have to use the messaging app to do so, and that means, you have to know the phone number of the recipient. The Samsung solution I'm aware of is described here - https://www.lifewire.com/using-nfc-o...android-121670 ... "With programs like Android Beam, it's possible to share pictures, videos, web pages, contact information, and other types of data with others by tapping the backs of your phones together." - but it's not a generalized solution to allow 'any' phone to transfer money to any other phone. There are obvious security reasons why this isn't as easy as one might like. Anyway - looks like this is still something of a 'future' feature.

sid nv Jan 22nd 2020 6:18 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by Steerpike (Post 12794071)
So are you saying that the tip is essentially stated up front in the 'offer'? . . .

No, the tip is not shown until after the order is delivered, but the $3 offer is a good indication. The $3 customers are typically teenagers, high school children at lunchtime, or car dealer salespeople, but can be anyone. Cash tips don't work, because the driver does not know up front that there is a cash tip on offer, and no sane driver will accept a $3 order.

caretaker Jan 22nd 2020 6:20 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 
I know when paying a restaurant bill with a credit card quite a few of the machines have the tipping option right on the screen and you either pay or decline as you wish. I assumed the device delivery drivers carry have the same thing.

kodokan Jan 22nd 2020 6:51 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by sid nv (Post 12794049)
It's not an unknown at all - customers almost never tip in cash. Low / No tip drive orders typically appear on the app as $3 offers, which depending on mileage is either $2 base pay + $1 tip, or $3 base pay + $0 tip.
On the very rare occasion that the customer does give a cash tip, my wife grabs it and heads to the nearest slot machine. For those who have not visited NV, it is not necessary to locate a casino to feed cash into a slot machine. We have slot machines everywhere - airports, supermarkets, libraries, museums, senior centers, etc.

As for digitally giving a fiver to another person, of course this is possible. I thought you were an IT Consultant? Please do keep up.

Same here on cash tips for the grocery shopping and delivering I do. I get an extra cash tip perhaps once every 30 deliveries or so; most customers tip up front in the app, almost universally at the default 5% rate.

I actually get customers go back in and increase (usually double to 10%) their e-tip more often than add cash; I’d say that’s about every 15-20 orders.

We can see the tip before accepting the order, though, and I don’t take orders without tips. In my experience, if it’s been actively zero’d out while ordering then it’s almost never added afterwards or given as cash at the door, so I’m left doing maybe an hour of work and driving however many miles using my own car, for only $7 - makes no economic sense to take a chance on that.

helwardman Jan 22nd 2020 10:09 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by Steerpike (Post 12793699)
is there an app to digitally 'give a fiver' to another person these days?

Venmo?

Steerpike Jan 22nd 2020 10:21 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by helwardman (Post 12794235)
Venmo?

I did read about that one (Venmo); they say "Pay family and friends with Venmo accounts using a phone number or email." I was hoping for a way to do it without revealing your own, or needing to know the recipient's, phone number but I guess that's not a vital requirement for now. Ultimately, I can imagine a way to use NFC to literally just 'touch' phones together, and transfer money 'anonymously' - which would be my preferred method of tipping. The security aspects of this are pretty daunting, though! Currently, Samsung phones can transfer photos by 'touching'.
https://venmo.com/about/product/

Jsmth321 Jan 22nd 2020 11:16 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 
We don't have Uber yet, but I wonder when they are approved how anyone will make any money after expenses considering how many barriers the various levels of government are putting up + gas is over $5 per US gallon in CAD$ + insurance costs and so on, oh and you need a class 4 commercial licence, so one can't just use their existing normal drivers licence to work on the side, they have to go and actually get a class 4.

I look into the food delivery apps, from my research talking to people here, unless you dedicate 10-12 hours per day, you make so little it becomes a waste of time, seems only way to actually made ok wage is to ride a bike and stick with the downtown core.

I have noticed some restaurants ending their relationship with these apps, not worth it for some I guess. One Pizza place has a notice when you order online on their website now saying how they employ their drivers, don't use contractors and only uniformed delivery drivers who work for them are authorized to deliver.

I always found between the higher prices on the apps + delivery charges they are not worth ordering from.

One app here I can't remember which one does who the driver the tip being offered before the driver accepts it, tip too low and well you may wait 1+ hour for your food.

sid nv Jan 23rd 2020 2:06 am

Re: Gizza Job
 
It's not a good idea to not tip your food delivery driver. One courier expressed his dissatisfaction with an 89c tip by dipping his dangly bits into the customer's salsa. I will not offend the delicate sensibilities of the distinguished members of this forum by posting a link, but if you google you will find a video produced by the driver.

Steerpike Jan 23rd 2020 5:15 am

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by sid nv (Post 12794293)
It's not a good idea to not tip your food delivery driver. One courier expressed his dissatisfaction with an 89c tip by dipping his dangly bits into the customer's salsa. I will not offend the delicate sensibilities of the distinguished members of this forum by posting a link, but if you google you will find a video produced by the driver.

So if I wanted to order food through this service, and I fully intended to tip - but wanted to tip in cash, directly to the driver, at the time of delivery - I would possibly get 'penalized' (with dangly bits in my salsa :) ) for not advertising the tip at the time of ordering? I eat out 3-4 times a week and always tip 15-20%, but I would never - both on principle and through habit - consider tipping ahead of time!

Giantaxe Jan 23rd 2020 5:51 am

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by Steerpike (Post 12794323)
So if I wanted to order food through this service, and I fully intended to tip - but wanted to tip in cash, directly to the driver, at the time of delivery - I would possibly get 'penalized' (with dangly bits in my salsa :) ) for not advertising the tip at the time of ordering? I eat out 3-4 times a week and always tip 15-20%, but I would never - both on principle and through habit - consider tipping ahead of time!

I agree with you. A tip is supposed to reflect the level of service received. And, if it doesn't, companies should build the equivalent amount into their prices so they can pay their drivers better.

Uber does something a little similar in that drivers can see your tip before they rate you. And, with their recent changes in California, drivers can reject rides without reason. It used to be they could only reject if your rating was under a certain level, but now they can cherry picks those with the highest ratings - who are likely the largest tippers.

Jsmth321 Jan 23rd 2020 7:32 am

Re: Gizza Job
 
Tips in many ways have become more like service charges. Such is this gig economy I guess where people rely on tips to make it viable enough to do.


kodokan Jan 23rd 2020 3:12 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12794346)
Tips in many ways have become more like service charges. Such is this gig economy I guess where people rely on tips to make it viable enough to do.

Definitely true; half my income for gig work comes from tips.

if you use a service that shows the tip up front to the contractor, you’ll likely have a much better experience if you tip up front. In my gig, the only people who take non-tip orders are the inexperienced newbies who don’t yet realize that they can decline offers, and that they have expenses like self-employment taxes of 15.3% and substantial vehicle costs. Or you get the truly desperate who need to make a few dollars and cash it out immediately, not even waiting for the weekly payday; they’re less likely to be focused on customer satisfaction, taking the time to make careful produce selections, texting the customer about possible substitutions, etc. It’s also likely to make your delivery late, as it’ll bounce around being rejected for what can be many hours.

My gig allows customers to edit the tip for several days afterwards, so you always have the option to reduce or remove it for a truly poor experience. I fortunately haven’t yet had the experience of anyone ‘tip baiting’ me - putting a large tip up front to get the order picked up promptly, while planning all along to remove it afterwards. 99.9% of customers are actually really pleasant, grateful people, who realize that the added cost of having someone shop and deliver your weekly grocery cart is much like choosing to pay for any other convenience or task they can’t/ don’t want to do, like paying someone $20-$30 for half an hour or so of their time to mow the yard weekly.

Jsmth321 Jan 23rd 2020 7:00 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 
Some of the grocery store chains in my area saw these personal shopping apps and one upped them by providing the same service to their customers including home delivery, but with no tip needed, the workers all work for the grocery store chain and are paid hourly, the personal shoppers in store only get paid min wage $13.85 but the delivery drivers who do the delivery make $17.50/hr.

I imagine some people still use the apps for whatever reason, but with one of the biggest grocery chains offering home delivery, may as well deal directly with the grocery company...lol

Other chains and Wal-Mart offer order online, park your car, call a number and we bring your groceries to your car service but not home delivery yet like the other chain does.

I don't order much food delivery like pizza and such anymore, the tip and service charges often end up costing nearly the same as the food.

Order a $11 pizza and you pay $4.99 delivery fee + $5 minimum tip is expected here, so $10 in fees/tips for an $11 pizza.




Originally Posted by kodokan (Post 12794579)
Definitely true; half my income for gig work comes from tips.

if you use a service that shows the tip up front to the contractor, you’ll likely have a much better experience if you tip up front. In my gig, the only people who take non-tip orders are the inexperienced newbies who don’t yet realize that they can decline offers, and that they have expenses like self-employment taxes of 15.3% and substantial vehicle costs. Or you get the truly desperate who need to make a few dollars and cash it out immediately, not even waiting for the weekly payday; they’re less likely to be focused on customer satisfaction, taking the time to make careful produce selections, texting the customer about possible substitutions, etc. It’s also likely to make your delivery late, as it’ll bounce around being rejected for what can be many hours.

My gig allows customers to edit the tip for several days afterwards, so you always have the option to reduce or remove it for a truly poor experience. I fortunately haven’t yet had the experience of anyone ‘tip baiting’ me - putting a large tip up front to get the order picked up promptly, while planning all along to remove it afterwards. 99.9% of customers are actually really pleasant, grateful people, who realize that the added cost of having someone shop and deliver your weekly grocery cart is much like choosing to pay for any other convenience or task they can’t/ don’t want to do, like paying someone $20-$30 for half an hour or so of their time to mow the yard weekly.


kodokan Jan 23rd 2020 7:24 pm

Re: Gizza Job
 

Originally Posted by Jsmth321 (Post 12794704)
Some of the grocery store chains in my area saw these personal shopping apps and one upped them by providing the same service to their customers including home delivery, but with no tip needed, the workers all work for the grocery store chain and are paid hourly, the personal shoppers in store only get paid min wage $13.85 but the delivery drivers who do the delivery make $17.50/hr.

I imagine some people still use the apps for whatever reason, but with one of the biggest grocery chains offering home delivery, may as well deal directly with the grocery company...lol

Other chains and Wal-Mart offer order online, park your car, call a number and we bring your groceries to your car service but not home delivery yet like the other chain does.

I don't order much food delivery like pizza and such anymore, the tip and service charges often end up costing nearly the same as the food.

Order a $11 pizza and you pay $4.99 delivery fee + $5 minimum tip is expected here, so $10 in fees/tips for an $11 pizza.

The largest supermarket chain in my area is Kroger (same chain as Fry’s, Smith’s etc elsewhere). You can go direct to the Kroger website/ app, place your order online for delivery for a flat fee of $9.95... and at that point it’s completely kicked out the backend to my gig company for fulfillment by shopping and delivery by an independent contractor.

It annoyingly muddies the waters compared to customers who order directly from my gig company. The customers ordering through Kroger genuinely don’t understand that we’re not waged hourly employees of the store itself, so naturally see no reason to tip. Kroger also offers a Click and Collect service which IS done by their store employees, so confusion is guaranteed.


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