Flying the Union Jack
Jul 6th 2015, 4:32 am
#61
Magnificently Withering
Joined: Jan 2007
Location: Oakville, ON
Posts: 6,892
Re: Flying the Union Jack
Oakvillian,
it is an eye-opener to see the protocol that goes with the 'Flag': how, when and under what lighting and weather conditions to fly it. I have just returned from a Cub Scout camp and was told that the camp salutes as the flag is lowered and end the salute when one of the colour guard have grabbed it at the bottom. I believe the colour guard then salute the empty flagpole briefly after they have folded the flag and before they retreat
it is an eye-opener to see the protocol that goes with the 'Flag': how, when and under what lighting and weather conditions to fly it. I have just returned from a Cub Scout camp and was told that the camp salutes as the flag is lowered and end the salute when one of the colour guard have grabbed it at the bottom. I believe the colour guard then salute the empty flagpole briefly after they have folded the flag and before they retreat
Jul 6th 2015, 4:40 am
#62
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: Flying the Union Jack
I have long been amused by the US's obsession with the "sanctity" of the flag, and the ease with which Americans can be wound up by people "desecrating" the Stars & Stripes. It all stems from having the Flag (definitely with a capital F) as per se the symbol of the country, rather than representing some other entity to which respect should be shown.
I learned something I didn't know the other day at a divisional Scout camp. In the States, I gather, the Boy Scouts will salute the empty flagpole after the flag is lowered at a formal closing ceremony, because the salute is to the flag itself (as, indeed is the allegiance pledge and all that goes with it). Whereas in Canada, as throughout the Commonwealth, the salute is always to what the flag represents - the Monarch, the Nation, whatever - rather than to the flag itself, so one never, ever salutes an empty flagpole - that would be disrespecting the entity represented by an absent flag, or something.
At multinational Scout meetings (we had some US visitors at this camp) you get a bit of confusion at the end as nobody is quite sure who is disrespecting whose tradition if only half the camp salutes at the close...
I don't know if this only applies to the Scout movement or if this is a universal thing. Can one of our resident vexillological pedants enlighten me?
I learned something I didn't know the other day at a divisional Scout camp. In the States, I gather, the Boy Scouts will salute the empty flagpole after the flag is lowered at a formal closing ceremony, because the salute is to the flag itself (as, indeed is the allegiance pledge and all that goes with it). Whereas in Canada, as throughout the Commonwealth, the salute is always to what the flag represents - the Monarch, the Nation, whatever - rather than to the flag itself, so one never, ever salutes an empty flagpole - that would be disrespecting the entity represented by an absent flag, or something.
At multinational Scout meetings (we had some US visitors at this camp) you get a bit of confusion at the end as nobody is quite sure who is disrespecting whose tradition if only half the camp salutes at the close...
I don't know if this only applies to the Scout movement or if this is a universal thing. Can one of our resident vexillological pedants enlighten me?
). From my own (uneducated) perspective, I always thought the flag was the representation of the country, so not sure what the distinction is that you are drawing....and isn't the pledge specifically to the "flag and the republic for which it stands"..... Again, no doubt there will be a US chappie along shortly to clarify! From the Scout perspective, I've never seen a command to salute an empty flag pole...that sounds totally bizarre. The closing ceremony we use has the flag saluted as it is lowered, then most troops (incl ours) seem to drop the salute once the flag is removed from the halyard. Some wait till it is "secured" ie folded and held by the color guard, and some wait till it is marched out of the arena. There shouldn't really be any confusion with the minor differences though, as it should be taken from the color guards commands. At the multinational camps we have attended, a different nationality has generally been invited to performed flag ceremonies on alternate nights, which has led to some interesting performances, but one of the things about international scouting is surely to embrace the differences...?
Ps..From my dim and distant memories of Scouts in the UK, I don't think we saluted the lowering of the flag, but I may be wrong. I know we saluted the raising, which I always understood to be saluting Queen and Country.
Jul 6th 2015, 4:47 am
#63
He/him
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: WA
Posts: 18,931
Re: Flying the Union Jack
What kind of salute do scouts give to the flag? The 'flag code' suggests that only the military salute the flag. Do scouts have thir own special scout salute? (Its too many years ago for me to remember what I did as a kid)
Jul 6th 2015, 4:53 am
#64
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: Flying the Union Jack
I thought it said something about anyone in uniform gives their organizations official salute? At way it brings in non-military such as police. Scouts give the three finger salute with pinky bent to thumb.
Jul 6th 2015, 5:00 am
#65
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: Flying the Union Jack
Back to the original though....any U.S. Navy folk out there may be wondering what all the fuss is about, as they may recognize this as the Union Jack...
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Apparently that was the U.S. navy Union Jack until sept 2002 when it was replaced by the "don't tread on me" jack .....story on Wikipedia here...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack...ed_States...if you're interested enough to cut and paste because my iPad keeps crashing when I try to linkify it.....
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Apparently that was the U.S. navy Union Jack until sept 2002 when it was replaced by the "don't tread on me" jack .....story on Wikipedia here...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack...ed_States...if you're interested enough to cut and paste because my iPad keeps crashing when I try to linkify it.....
Jul 6th 2015, 6:42 am
#66
Joined: Feb 2012
Location: Not in Paris
Posts: 18,212
Re: Flying the Union Jack
Back to the original though....any U.S. Navy folk out there may be wondering what all the fuss is about, as they may recognize this as the Union Jack...
.Attachment 122091
Apparently that was the U.S. navy Union Jack until sept 2002 when it was replaced by the "don't tread on me" jack .....story on Wikipedia here...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack...ed_States...if you're interested enough to cut and paste because my iPad keeps crashing when I try to linkify it.....
.Attachment 122091
Apparently that was the U.S. navy Union Jack until sept 2002 when it was replaced by the "don't tread on me" jack .....story on Wikipedia here...https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack...ed_States...if you're interested enough to cut and paste because my iPad keeps crashing when I try to linkify it.....
Jul 6th 2015, 7:03 am
#67
Joined: Dec 2001
Location: Dixie, ex UK
Posts: 52,558
Re: Flying the Union Jack
Jul 6th 2015, 7:49 am
#68
Joined: May 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 987
Re: Flying the Union Jack
I occasionally pass a house that sometimes flies the Union Jack. Not sure why, but this always bugs me. I would never fly a British flag from my house because it would seem so pretentious. Like unnecessarily drawing attention to oneself. Having said that, I think the flying of the Stars and Stripes here is brilliant and everyone does it. What do you guys think?
We fly the Union Flag and the Stars and Stripes all year round. We have done so since my wife installed a Union Flag on a previous house we lived at. The Stars and Stripes were on one side of the porch, and she installed the Union Flag on the other side to welcome me home from England. Unbeknownst to her, she had the flag upside down, but it was the sentiment that mattered.
I go through about 1 Stars and Stripes and 4 Union Flags each year. I can't source a good quality Union Flag that is cost effect enough to buy, so I swap it out every 3 months when it looks weathered.
Jul 6th 2015, 11:01 am
#69
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: Flying the Union Jack
Jul 8th 2015, 11:20 am
#70
Banned
Joined: Jun 2015
Location: California
Posts: 81
Re: Flying the Union Jack
It's a constituent country.
Who knows which country has the only non-quadrilateral flag?
Jul 8th 2015, 11:28 am
#71
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Jul 8th 2015, 11:32 am
#73
Banned
Joined: Jun 2015
Location: California
Posts: 81
Re: Flying the Union Jack
As I said in my OP, I would feel it's drawing attention to myself. Letting the neighbors know (who don't give a rat's ass) that I am British. I wouldn't wear a tee shirt with the Union Jack on it either. That's just my POV.
Jul 9th 2015, 2:17 am
#75
Joined: May 2008
Location: DFW
Posts: 987
Re: Flying the Union Jack
There is really nothing wrong with feeling patriotic.
One of the most difficult social obstacles I found after moving here was escaping the cultural humility that had been instilled in me since birth. Maybe we aught to change our avatars to Union Flag colors, and take a leaf out of the gay pride movement
