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Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

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Old Jan 10th 2015, 9:23 pm
  #256  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by Hotscot
My answer to that is that just because something may not be breaking the law doesn't mean that it's not bad for society.

In many cases gender inequality doesn't break the law but is it a positive behavior?

Is that something you happily accept?
And who gets to decide what is bad for society? Someone who doesn't agree with it? Ask Mme LePen what she thinks is bad for french society and you'l get an answer very different to that of the average french person.
What may be "bad" at one moment in time can become the norm in the future. Abortion??

And as for gender inequality - really? Surely you mean pay inequality or health inequality? In our society, women are equal to men, and the kinks are being ironed out I think?
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Old Jan 10th 2015, 9:36 pm
  #257  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

One thing that distinguishes a free society from a dictatorship is that we don't charge people for thought crimes. We care about what people do (or intend to do), not what they think.

People are free to have their religious beliefs. They aren't free to blow things up and shoot each other, irrespective of what motivates them.

By focusing on bad acts, we can stay true to our democratic principles while simultaneously being more effective -- focusing on the crime instead of on the stereotypes gets better results.
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Old Jan 10th 2015, 10:37 pm
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by Hotscot
"A religion is not just a set of texts but the living beliefs and practices of its adherents. Islam today includes a substantial minority of believers who countenance, if they don’t actually carry out, a degree of violence in the application of their convictions that is currently unique." .....
I think I know what the writer means but I can't make absolute sense of it using any definition or usage of "unique" that I am familiar with.
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Old Jan 10th 2015, 11:48 pm
  #259  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

To win you need numbers and will. Morale high ground etc is both subjective and irrelevant.

To be honest this is pretty much small beer, nasty if you were one of those directly involved but that is far as it goes.

The bigger picture has not changed.
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 12:16 am
  #260  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
People are free to have their religious beliefs. They aren't free to blow things up and shoot each other, irrespective of what motivates them.
But we in the West ARE free to drop bombs and rockets on civilians in faraway countries - or, at least, a majority of our political representatives feel free to order their militaries to do so; and the voters keep voting to re-elect those representatives. What are the victims supposed to think of those voters and their beliefs?
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 12:28 am
  #261  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Ruling on one who insults the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) - islamqa.info

For those wondering about correct punishment for those who insult the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 12:44 am
  #262  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Anonymous claims first victim in 'Operation Charlie Hebdo'

Hackers to the rescue.
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 12:54 am
  #263  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Wow! Just popped through and asked cs whiz hacker daughter about this. She said this has been going on in the hacker world since last week. The aim is to disrupt their communication channels (extremists are not very sophisticated it seems) and bring down websites.
Think I might just upgrade the security at our house......
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 12:56 am
  #264  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

It's possible this could be counterproductive as the security forces may currently obtain useful information from their websites.

Better to quietly leave Trojans...
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 1:01 am
  #265  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by Hotscot
It's possible this could be counterproductive as the security forces may currently obtain useful information from their websites.

Better to quietly leave Trojans...
I would make a bet that the FBI keeps a close eye on the hacker communities. Apparently last week a few hackers were interviewed about the stuff going on in N Korea. They were laughing their heads off.
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 4:38 am
  #266  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
...

That isn't quite what I said. What I am noting is that people will do what they are going to do (assuming that they have the means to do it), and use what they can to rationalize it. Sometimes, that takes the form of religion.

This isn't about religion or cartoons, but about a desire for respect and/or power. Imagine a rapist who targets the west instead of women, and you will find that the mentality is largely the same.
So give me your thoughts on how the Taliban are killing their own women and children and doing what they can to make women remain ignorant. Where does respect and power enter into that?
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 4:40 am
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
It's always risky finding evidence in personal examples, because somebody else can find contrary evidence in other personal examples. My cousin in Leicester happily lived with a Bangladeshi fellow for twenty years - and was accepted readily by his children. She got on better with them than their own mother did. And don't get me started on Catholic-Protestant bitterness in my parents' respective families' lives. And so on and so on... Do my examples cancel out your examples?
Honor killings of Mulsim women are somewhat well documented. In your example, sounds like a 'western' lady was choosing to live with a Bangladeshi MAN ... that's quite a different story - the men get to do what they want.
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 4:48 am
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Here we go!
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 5:53 am
  #269  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by Pulaski
I agree, but the message in most western countries to immigrants from different cultures is almost entirely a mix of "we are tolerant of your culture", and "it's OK to be different", and virtually none of "we don't do that here, it's not acceptable".

Much of the problems (relatively rare though they are) over the past ten years or so appears to be with second generation immigrants who came to the West with their parents, or were born here, and so weren't part of the decision to pursue a better income, healthcare, etc. But despite growing up in a western country they have been allowed to grow up in an alien culture, and somehow have turned that into a homicidal hatred for the culture of the country in which they live.
When I was growing up in the UK's "North West" in the 60s and 70s, we got the first wave of Indian and Pakistani immigrants. Back then, there were difficulties because of the obvious cultural differences but everyone said the situation would improve with time - that future generations would grow up in this 'new' environment and they would be better integrated. When I go back there now, it's clear that things have gone in the reverse direction; I see more women in veils/burquas (face coverings) now than I did 50 years ago, and I see very little evidence of interracial marriage.

There was blatant discrimination against these immigrants back then. One could say it was that discrimination back then that has led to the situation today - the incumbent society did not welcome these new folks, and thus they turned inwards and built their own cultural ecosystem, raising the next generation as outsiders of the mainstream society. I'm sure this is true, but - one thing I understand now that I didn't understand then - we had large influxes of both Indian and Pakistani immigrants, and today, the Indians are almost entirely integrated while the Pakistanis have become more marginalized. One key difference is ... religion.
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Old Jan 11th 2015, 5:59 am
  #270  
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Default Re: Charlie Hebdo shooting in France

Originally Posted by Beaverstate
There is a joke about 72 virgins somewhere in there...
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