Originally Posted by Steerpike

That just confirms my suspicion that you are expressing your personal opinion, not quoting any mainstream polls. I'd personally be happy to see Bloomberg up there with Biden - in fact, I think Biden is one of the worst candidates of all and would love to see Bloomberg take the lead - but polls don't currently reflect that. You said, specifically "Right now the leading candidates for the Democrat nomination are.... Biden, Bloomberg, Warren, Sanders, In that order.". You didn't say 'in my opinion'. So how can you make that assertion, based on the facts of the current polls?

ETA - This article today also fails to reflect any significant presence from Bloomberg - https://www.vox.com/2019/12/9/209934...izabeth-warren

Originally Posted by dc koop

But is ten million to be taxed at 70 percent? This only illustrates AOC's naivety and ignorance on basing tax rates relative to wealth

Not permitting private insurance to be a choice from Medicare for All will be the demise of Sanders and Warren and deservedly so.

Originally Posted by dc koop

But is ten million to be taxed at 70 percent? This only illustrates AOC's naivety and ignorance on basing tax rates relative to wealth

Not permitting private insurance to be a choice from Medicare for All will be the demise of Sanders and Warren and deservedly so.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353

Have you ever been told that how you do something is as important as what you do? That sound advice is true. Convincing the greater American public to give up their private health insurance is the task of progressives who want to have 100% government ran healthcare like Europe and Canada. Figure out a plan to accomplish that goal, and then sale the idea to the Socialist wing in government because at this point, what they are attempting to replace private insurance with is not polling well at all. Americans are very suspicious of government ran agencies because everyone is fully aware that politics can interfere with a newly installed law or department, and what was once a great idea can be suddenly dismantled.

Why would anyone give up insurance provided by their job to instead rely on government supplied healthcare and lose that coverage once progressives decide to focus on other distractions in their life like watching American Idol, or hanging out with friends instead of taking serious the responsibility of voting and protecting hard gained achievements?

That is a lot to ask of a parent who has a sick child that can not go without their employer funded healthcare. Zargof, you have far too much confidence in the ability to fight from progressives. I am a registered Republican and have been since the Reagan era and the thing I've learned about political intensity of both major parties is the fact Republicans fight harder and dirtier and have no scruples in achieving their agenda. Democrats imo tend to fight hard for their agenda but can lose focus in maintaining their advantage once holding power. And Democrats over romanticize government leaders which is why you allow the perfect to become the enemy of the good. You had Obama one of the best Presidents with a progressive agenda and you guys didn't fully stick behind him to keep your hold on the direction the country was heading in.

Instead you're looking for a perfect candidate which mean some of the progressives are all over the map. You folks need to stop being angry and start working hard to convince moderates that your ideas are the best roadmap to follow. Get out and canvas knock on doors and learn to accept a 3/4 full glass and stop wanting only a Socialist because I'm here to tell you that America is not an extremely conservative nation like DC,koop is, but nor is it a Socialist agenda country.

The goal is not to specifically elect Bernie Sanders per se but to achieve a major uptick in healthcare availability for all Americans. Taking health insurance companies out of the equation altogether in the next 20 years is a huge ask for a major capitalistic economy and even if everyone tomorrow turned into Socialist what is your plan to help those 2 million people that will lose their jobs in that industry and not to mention the other 10 million family members and supply chains that will be out of business?

Let's face the fact providing healthcare for a population of nearly 350 million people is not the same task of providing care for 37 million people in Canada. The math alone is the problem especially for a country in 22 trillion dollars of debt. I'm sure you don't run your household that far in the red and you must live within your means like we all must.

If Bernie Sanders were to win the nomination I will vote for him because Trump is the worse President in modern times. But not all moderates are looking at the big picture as I do. Many will vote for who ever has the best message that makes sense and a 25 trillion dollar healthcare coup will turn off a great many Independent voters. Bernie needs to scale back his agenda if he wants to beat Biden or Bloomberg who both are more appealing to moderates. And as you probably know Democrats alone will not decide this election. Independents will and a reasonable healthcare plan to excite them, can and will defeat Trump.

BTW, for Sanders to even have a chance to win the Democrat nomination he must figure out how to wrestle away support of African Americans and Hispanic Americans from Biden and Bloomberg. Those are key voting blocks for any Democrat candidate and without those groups a candidacy is doomed. So far Mayor Pete and Sanders are not popular in those groups. Just ask Hillary Clinton how important those groups are. Remember Hillary had half of the Hispanic voting block and Obama had half of Hispanic voters, and nearly all of the African American voters after President Clinton bad mouthed the "idea" of a Black candidate winning the election and that moment killed Hillary's support among that huge reliable voting block. That was a memorable moment in political history.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353

Sanders is not very popular with Hispanic or African American voters.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353

The data polling those groups individually prove this information.

Originally Posted by zargof

You talk like someone who has only ever been lucky enough to have good health insurance and therefore assume that everyone else has the same experience and opinion as you do. But the fact is, that's just not the case. You wonder why someone with private health insurance who had a sick kid would want to lose it. Well maybe like many people who have a sick kid and their first thought is that they will take them to the ER, but you second guess yourself when you remember that a trip to the ER will cost you at least $1000 because you haven't hit your deductible yet and then the insurance only 80% of and ER visit. The idea that you could go to the ER and not have to worry about if you could afford it is something of a big selling point.

Let me ask you this: how many people do you know that is disappointed to have the option to enroll in Medicare when they reach 65? I don't think it's a high number, and the approval ratings for Medicare are always much higher than for private insurance, so you are being very disingenuous by stating that Americans don't want government run healthcare. As for the polling, it turns out that the Republicans and media constantly lying about M4A taking away peoples' healthcare does depress the poll numbers particularly when they are aided and abetted by centrists Democrats. But it still polls well, particularly among Democrats who are the ones who vote in the Democratic primary. It also polls well with independents so don't think that Bernie supporting M4A would mean independents wouldn't vote for him, that's something you just made up.

As for the last part about Bernie not having the support of minorities. That's just not true. Bernie already polls better than anyone else amongst Hispanics, which is part of why he's doing so well polling wise in California. He also polls well with African Americans, so save the concern trolling. I still have no idea why you keep talking about Bloomberg like he is a thing. Bloomberg's favorability is woeful, he isn't going to get any where near the nomination. But I think it's great that he's running as any support he gets will be from anyone but Bernie, so it just makes Bernie more likely. So Mike can waste as much money as he likes as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by zargof

You talk like someone who has only ever been lucky enough to have good health insurance and therefore assume that everyone else has the same experience and opinion as you do. But the fact is, that's just not the case. You wonder why someone with private health insurance who had a sick kid would want to lose it. Well maybe like many people who have a sick kid and their first thought is that they will take them to the ER, but you second guess yourself when you remember that a trip to the ER will cost you at least $1000 because you haven't hit your deductible yet and then the insurance only 80% of and ER visit. The idea that you could go to the ER and not have to worry about if you could afford it is something of a big selling point.

Let me ask you this: how many people do you know that is disappointed to have the option to enroll in Medicare when they reach 65? I don't think it's a high number, and the approval ratings for Medicare are always much higher than for private insurance, so you are being very disingenuous by stating that Americans don't want government run healthcare. As for the polling, it turns out that the Republicans and media constantly lying about M4A taking away peoples' healthcare does depress the poll numbers particularly when they are aided and abetted by centrists Democrats. But it still polls well, particularly among Democrats who are the ones who vote in the Democratic primary. It also polls well with independents so don't think that Bernie supporting M4A would mean independents wouldn't vote for him, that's something you just made up.

As for the last part about Bernie not having the support of minorities. That's just not true. Bernie already polls better than anyone else amongst Hispanics, which is part of why he's doing so well polling wise in California. He also polls well with African Americans, so save the concern trolling. I still have no idea why you keep talking about Bloomberg like he is a thing. Bloomberg's favorability is woeful, he isn't going to get any where near the nomination. But I think it's great that he's running as any support he gets will be from anyone but Bernie, so it just makes Bernie more likely. So Mike can waste as much money as he likes as far as I'm concerned.

Originally Posted by dc koop

She's also on record as comparing the detention camps at the border to that of Nazi concentration camps. Somebody should advise the daft cow to take a trip to Poland and visit Auschwitz see the accommodations where the inmates slept, packed together like sardines, rat infested, lice infested, typhoid on the rampage and then a final look at the crematoria ovens to round off the visit. That comment was insulting and disrespectful to Jews and anyone still living who were in the camp. She's completely delirious.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353

Zargof
I respect your opinion even those that are not the same as mine. Let's just hope everyone Democrats, Independents and moderate Republicans come together at the end of the nominating process to achieve Trump's removal from office. That is the utmost priority to safe guard our democracy. And I'm ok with Bernie winning the nomination because he can be reigned in by moderate Democrat and Republican Senators. But I wouldn't count him getting that far.

Will you vote for Biden or Bloomberg if they win the nomination?

Originally Posted by Jsmth321

My sister almost died from an appendix because she was so worried about the cost of going to the hospital. Her insurance covered 80% but still having to pay 20% of a hospital bill an be a significant amount.

I was always lucky in the US that my employers offered reasonably affordable health insurance but it certainly still cost me a fair amount of money, looking now at how many times I see doctors, lab work, and such, I am not sure I could afford to take care of health issues in the US paying $50 a pop for each visit, really adds up.

Originally Posted by Jsmth321

My sister almost died from an appendix because she was so worried about the cost of going to the hospital. Her insurance covered 80% but still having to pay 20% of a hospital bill an be a significant amount.

I was always lucky in the US that my employers offered reasonably affordable health insurance but it certainly still cost me a fair amount of money, looking now at how many times I see doctors, lab work, and such, I am not sure I could afford to take care of health issues in the US paying $50 a pop for each visit, really adds up.

Originally Posted by zargof

Why are you so obsessed with who I'm going to vote for?

Originally Posted by zargof

Why are you so obsessed with who I'm going to vote for?

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353

America can definitely devise a better healthcare system but for it to happen we need candidates to understand how to compromise and build consensus. Bernie Sanders is telling everyone it's his way or the highway but not once has he explained how he plans to pay for his system of healthcare for all. Medicare for all is not the only method to achieve that goal. And no one should be denied healthcare simply because lack of means. Also there are a lot of Americans that don't need to be included in a Medicare for all system because they are doing well financially. They should not be forced to enter that system if it isn't needed. Medicare and Medicaid works best when kept at a manageable size. Obama care need to be improved and made affordable and that is achievable.

Originally Posted by UkWinds5353

I wouldn't exactly call asking a question one time an obsession. Was just trying to gage if you are open to compromise or if only one candidate will motivate you to vote. I hear a lot of passion from people with opinions but a great many of them are distracted by small details and do not see the bigger picture.