2020 Election
#1321
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
LIncoln didn't win the civil war. He just had good Generals, Grant and Sheridan who won it for him. He didn't go to war to free the slaves either at the beginning but to preserve the Union first and foremost
#1322
Re: 2020 Election
Listen to the Repubs here running down their most famous President.
'The Party of Lincoln' my ass. The party of Trump - right up to the point he leads you to a generation of political oblivion.
'The Party of Lincoln' my ass. The party of Trump - right up to the point he leads you to a generation of political oblivion.
#1323
Re: 2020 Election
I think Trump would be capable of doing a lot more if the hyenas yapping for his hide weren't doing their best to obstruct him. For example a fair and balanced deal with China, a lessening of tensions in eastern Europe and a long term solution to the mess which exists at the US-Mexican border. Just three so far.
LIncoln didn't win the civil war. He just had good Generals, Grant and Sheridan who won it for him. He didn't go to war to free the slaves either at the beginning but to preserve the Union first and foremost
LIncoln didn't win the civil war. He just had good Generals, Grant and Sheridan who won it for him. He didn't go to war to free the slaves either at the beginning but to preserve the Union first and foremost
#1324
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 101
Re: 2020 Election
It is curious that you placed the blame for the war deaths (that were, incidentally, somewhere around 650,000 to 720,000) solely on Lincoln's shoulders. If you recall, the southern forces fired the first shot at Ft. Sumter. Secondly, if you read comments and speeches by Lincoln in the 1850's and 1860's, he was definitely a committed abolitionist, not the cold-hearted pragmatist that you suggest. Thirdly, even though it was true that Lincoln's first concern was preserving the Union, the southern secessionists first, and really only, concern was in the maintaining of slavery (The nonsense that the southern propagandists like to spew about "States Rights" being their cause for going to war is grimly amusing. The "States Right" that the southerners went to war to keep was the right to maintain slavery) .
Lastly, if you want to assess moral quilt and innocence, it might do to look at Britain's unofficial involvement in the war. Countless tens of thousands of union soldiers were killed and maimed by bullets, muskets, cannons, and warships built and supplied by British industries to the Confederates (via third parties) for the sake of a nice profit. On top of this, there was food, medical supplies, and other necessities sold to the Confederates in support of their war efforts for the sake of profit.
#1325
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
It was a matter of Southern grievance against what they perceived as a violation by the Federal government regarding Constitutional rights to own property. No way would they have agreed to abolish slavery. The labour costs were incredibly cheap, cotton was the main economy and plantation owners were getting rich
#1326
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would be far more likely to lead to a generation of political oblivion
Last edited by dc koop; Dec 3rd 2019 at 12:09 am.
#1327
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: 2020 Election
I always think of it as the second civil war, however it was essentially about power and various factors were used by both sides and like most situations the Hollywood version misses critical points. It certainly was not a single issue, not sure any of the major players anticipated it would be so protracted and costly.
#1328
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
You are quite wrong.
It is curious that you placed the blame for the war deaths (that were, incidentally, somewhere around 650,000 to 720,000) solely on Lincoln's shoulders. If you recall, the southern forces fired the first shot at Ft. Sumter. Secondly, if you read comments and speeches by Lincoln in the 1850's and 1860's, he was definitely a committed abolitionist, not the cold-hearted pragmatist that you suggest. Thirdly, even though it was true that Lincoln's first concern was preserving the Union, the southern secessionists first, and really only, concern was in the maintaining of slavery (The nonsense that the southern propagandists like to spew about "States Rights" being their cause for going to war is grimly amusing. The "States Right" that the southerners went to war to keep was the right to maintain slavery) .
Lastly, if you want to assess moral quilt and innocence, it might do to look at Britain's unofficial involvement in the war. Countless tens of thousands of union soldiers were killed and maimed by bullets, muskets, cannons, and warships built and supplied by British industries to the Confederates (via third parties) for the sake of a nice profit. On top of this, there was food, medical supplies, and other necessities sold to the Confederates in support of their war efforts for the sake of profit.
It is curious that you placed the blame for the war deaths (that were, incidentally, somewhere around 650,000 to 720,000) solely on Lincoln's shoulders. If you recall, the southern forces fired the first shot at Ft. Sumter. Secondly, if you read comments and speeches by Lincoln in the 1850's and 1860's, he was definitely a committed abolitionist, not the cold-hearted pragmatist that you suggest. Thirdly, even though it was true that Lincoln's first concern was preserving the Union, the southern secessionists first, and really only, concern was in the maintaining of slavery (The nonsense that the southern propagandists like to spew about "States Rights" being their cause for going to war is grimly amusing. The "States Right" that the southerners went to war to keep was the right to maintain slavery) .
Lastly, if you want to assess moral quilt and innocence, it might do to look at Britain's unofficial involvement in the war. Countless tens of thousands of union soldiers were killed and maimed by bullets, muskets, cannons, and warships built and supplied by British industries to the Confederates (via third parties) for the sake of a nice profit. On top of this, there was food, medical supplies, and other necessities sold to the Confederates in support of their war efforts for the sake of profit.
#1329
Re: 2020 Election
we see a similar transformation in Washington earlier, With Jefferson we see the opposite.
Last edited by kimilseung; Dec 3rd 2019 at 12:24 am.
#1330
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2020 Election
I always think of it as the second civil war, however it was essentially about power and various factors were used by both sides and like most situations the Hollywood version misses critical points. It certainly was not a single issue, not sure any of the major players anticipated it would be so protracted and costly.
#1331
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 2
Re: 2020 Election
Chicago suburb to use recreational marijuana sales tax to fund reparations program
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-w...es-tax-to-fundReparations seems to have dropped off the table, wonder if this will get it kick started.
#1332
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,830
Re: 2020 Election
You assume that all Republicans possess a sense of history. If you and others think that the poll results were incredibly stupid you are assuming that Trump must be a very poor, mediocre President. There's no reason to think that he is. Far from it. He's presiding over a sound economy, a very healthy stock market, record low unemployment and surely there must be very many black Americans also benefiting from it. He's also managed to keep us out of any new wars even if he's inherited the wars and middle east problems from another Republican President. If you want to compare Lincoln to other Republican Presidents such as Herbert Hoover who hadn't a clue how to deal with the Depression then obviously no contest. Lincoln wins hands down.
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would be far more likely to lead to a generation of political oblivion
Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren would be far more likely to lead to a generation of political oblivion
#1333
Banned
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,830
Re: 2020 Election
Trump insulting our western allies again today. Ronald Reagan must be rolling over in his grave.
#1335
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,583
Re: 2020 Election
It’s beyond embarrassment. I think at this point we’re punch-drunk. Dangerous, because we’ve still got an impeachment and an election to get through.