Re: 2020 Election
 

Exactly

It seems the oligarchs are running scared, missed this story:

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/...ension-1435405


SAN FRANCISCO — Democratic Rep. Tulsi Gabbard’s presidential campaign is suing Google in a California court, charging her free speech was violated when the tech giant blocked her ad account in the hours after the first Democratic presidential debate.

Gabbard, a Democrat from Hawaii who has called for the breakup of big tech companies, was among the top search topics on Google during and after the debate. Gabbard’s campaign decided after the debate that “now is the time we can get our message out there by buying search ads,’’ said attorney Brian Dunne, who is representing Gabbard. But “just as her Google traffic was spiking, her Google ad account was taken offline,’’ he said.

Of course it is the same in the Healthcare industry, none of them are going to let that go easily.

Re: 2020 Election
 

People don't like their employer coverage. But Steerpike will keep pointing to the same polls that show that they do, but as I've pointed out before, they are flawed in the questions they ask. Do you like your coverage compared to what? Not having coverage, Blue Cross vs. Aetna? It's never clear.

When you poll people and ask them if they would be happy to lose their coverage if it meant they could still keep access to their doctors, then the answer is different.

https://morningconsult.com/2019/07/0...roviders-stay/

Re: 2020 Election
 

Because once it is implemented there would be no more of these problems. You wouldn't have exchanges or mandates to worry about at all. I can only speak about Bernie's plan because I don't know the details of the others, but it would be paid for by taxes. I don't think a Supreme Court would argue taxes are unconstitutional. Also, I very much doubt Republicans could try to repeal it as it would be electoral suicide.

Re: 2020 Election
 

I think most of them are lined-up behind the fact their plan would be a full replacement - taxes used to fund Healthcare provision across the country. There are still clearly ways innovation, private investment or administration, extra private coverage etc. can all be layered into any such system. Again, to be a success they may have to make some noise about that - just like so few people here have even the remotest ides a private Healthcare industry exists in the UK, very few of the plans, as yet, seem to be offering any of those sort of olive branches.

Re: 2020 Election
 

Honestly, Boiler, can you stop playing stupid games? No one ever said it was wonderful. What the surveys show is, the majority of recipients are 'satisfied' or 'very satisfied'. Here you go - 71% satisfied ...
https://www.healthcarefinancenews.co...ir-health-plan

Google search results: https://www.google.com/search?q=kais...hrome&ie=UTF-8

Re: 2020 Election
 

Can you elaborate on the $800? my g/f just went onto Medicare, and ... so she claimed ... got the best possible coverage with all 'extras', and pays about $250/mo. Just curious!

Re: 2020 Election
 

I'm not cherry-picking polls. Look at this page of results in Google. They all say pretty much the same:

https://www.google.com/search?q=kais...hrome&ie=UTF-8

The same argument about polls / surveys can be used about various M4A proposals. There is overwhelming support for M4A initially, but when you start talking about cost, additional taxes, etc, support reduces.

Re: 2020 Election
 

Perhaps it is self selecting but there always seems to be negative comments. And does ask the question what you compare it with.

A more efficient system should mean peoples costs go down not up. Seems more people working in the Industry who are not involved in care but in billing.

Re: 2020 Election
 

I'm quoting for my wife and I Perhaps you can elaborate how she gets it for $250. ( got the best possible coverage with all extras ) whatever that is.
Just checked my figures and it's $796 not $800. Not including dental and eye care which is out of pocket.
Medicare part D doesn't fully cover all prescription drugs, plus if one has expensive meds they fall into the donut hole. Which can happen very quickly if one takes expensive meds. My wife was taking xarelto the deductible was over $400.for that one prescription.

Re: 2020 Election
 

I didn't say you were cherry picking the polls. I said the poll doesn't show what you think it shows. Asking people if they are satisfied with the coverage from employers doesn't mean that taking it away is unpopular. As the poll I linked to shows if they can still access their doctors then they are happy to lose their insurance.

As for polls in general, you should look at what people think about healthcare overall, and they are far from happy.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/4708/he...re-system.aspx

Also the report that you link to says that even though the majority of people say they're satisfied, 51% say that they or someone in their family had skipped care because of cost. Do you think they are really rhat satisfied?

Re: 2020 Election
 

Measuring meaningful 'satisfaction' with healthcare is a near impossible task, and I agree with you that responses to polls are very dependent upon how the questions are asked. It is my personal observation and opinion that most people are pretty clueless about how their healthcare insurance 'works', and how it compares to the alternatives. For example - I was an employee of 'corporate America' for 30+ years, and didn't think highly of my plan (if I thought about it at all) - I thought the deductibles were 'high', and the cost of seeing a doctor, even with insurance, was 'high'. Then I left corporate America to become self-employed, and found myself having to buy 'private'/'individual' insurance (on the exchanges), and the costs were astronomical in comparison. So what I thought was 'high' before (with my 'group plan') was in fact comparatively low, and I now would give anything to get back on those plans I once thought were 'expensive'. So it's all relative.

With 155 million Americans getting their healthcare through 'employer provided' (group) insurance, vs 12 million on 'individual' (ACA/exchange) insurance, you can see why there's a general lack of understanding of the real issues.

So will they understand what M4A is giving them? Will they appreciate it? Will they believe assurances that they can keep their doctor? Will they trust that their employer will give them a pay raise to offset the increased tax they'll have to pay?

I was having dinner at the bar in an upscale restaurant last weekend and the couple next to me were ranting on about how they did not want 'socialized medicine'. The lady claimed to be a nurse and claimed to have a lot of patients who came from Canada, where 'they either 'weren't covered' or 'had to wait too long'. I kept my mouth shut, just listened. I think you'll find there's going to be a lot of resistance to the idea of an entirely government controlled service.

Time will tell; you might be right that this is the kind of 'bold plan' that will motivate a groundswell of voters to come out and vote democrat. I hope you are right. But remember that nothing you or I say here in this forum will change the outcome in 16 month's time, so there's no point attacking me for my opinions. I happen to think it's a very dangerous strategy that could lose the democrats the election and I'd rather see a more moderate plan - either voluntary opt-in to Medicare, or, simply beef up the current ACA.

Re: 2020 Election
 

I was interesting see some bipartisanship, both have issues with Obama and his policies.

Re: 2020 Election
 

That was my point, it's pretty meaningless. But you have repeatedly used these numbers to try and prove that people don't want to lose their employer insurance. That is what I was objecting to.

I agree, which is why people need to be educated. But the media is doing a terrible job of parroting right wing talking points.

I wasn't attacking you because of your opinion, but this is a public forum and you should expect to be challenged on what you say.

Re: 2020 Election
 

As long as the Republicans can keep convincing people that socialism mean Venezuela rather than Canada or Europe.

Re: 2020 Election
 

Are they providing Reparations?

Does Canada provide free Healthcare to non Residents?