Originally Posted by dc koop

I could see sense in a Constitutional amendment to make it compulsory that all members of the government be required to produce and make public tax returns each year and this would apply to any candidate seeking election for the first time. Until then however a President is no more obligated to make public his tax return that anyone else in the Executive Branch, Congress and the Senate. If people want to assume that there's something to hide and lets face it there's plenty of negative feelings towards Trump then let them stew in it. I think a lot of people in this country are getting sick and tired of the whole thing. First it was the Mueller Report which didn't achieve the object of removing him so now it's an allegedly "serious misdemeanor" involving a phone call with the Ukraine President. There was every right to involve Biden. Any American politician, especially a Vice-President and now a candidate for President who has a family member occupying a highly lucrative position on the board of a very large corporation in a foreign country and who was placed in that position only because of a connection to his father and not for any other reason should be investigated. There had to be a reason for it and it needs to be known.

I don't see this impeachment process and the Senate trial being of any benefit to the country. It will only lead to political partisan warfare in the future in a nation already politically deeply divided and his removal from office will only make it even worse. Far better to wait until November and remove him by citizen vote although when I look at what the Dems have produced it seems once more that the Democrat party has proved to be it's own worst enemy.

Originally Posted by morpeth

I would assume a reasonable person would want to hear from Constitutional experts on both sides before taking a firm position either way.

Originally Posted by morpeth

And so political debates will be between CPA's on the merits of this or that tax deduction ? Spare us please.

The country is already polarized, and this has been building for some time long before Trump, and if it isn't this will be something else.Either he should be convicted or he shouldn't, presumably to be based on what the facts show and what is the right understanding of the Constitution.If he were to fail both, why would anyone want him in office ? If he prevails then hopefully serves as a warning against this sort of thing being done again..Forget the partisanship, and let the process play out It is a pity with all the serious issues Congress should be devoting so much time has been spent on the Russia story and now this- on the other hand if the Constitution was violated, by all means should be dealt with. I would assume a reasonable person would want to hear from Constitutional experts on both sides before taking a firm position either way.

The 2020 election promises to be an extraordinarily vicious and expensive election however the Senate trial ends up or is handled.

Originally Posted by Boiler

What do the Dems do if he is found innocent, where do they go then?

Originally Posted by dc koop

I also see that if Trump is removed that this will be the start of [political partisan warfare on a prolonged scale.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

A day was devoted to this during the House's impeachment hearings.

As for tax returns, I think it should be required for the nominees to release them. The president has a lot of power to shape tax policy and it provides transparency that we can see how they would benefit from changes they are trying to get enacted. Although not a requirement, this wasn't controversial for either party until Trump cam along.

Originally Posted by dc koop

Indeed the upcoming election will be extraordinarily vicious. You fail to see that those who voted for Trump regard this whole process of impeachment and the preceding Mueller enquiry as just a huge plot by the Democrats to get rid of him and that the Ukraine affair does not come under crimes and misdemeanors whatsoever. I foresee that there will be a huge turnout of Republican voters assuming that Trump will survive this trial. I also see that if Trump is removed that this will be the start of [political partisan warfare on a prolonged scale. Impeaching Presidents could easily catch on in DC. The result will be government that fails to address the real problems facing the nation and maybe (possibly) the birth of a new political party created by independents who read the discontent, loathing and disgust felt by the electorate in general

Originally Posted by morpeth

As as 'failing to see' I think with respect you are missing my point. If it is as you say it is, then the trial a good think to help clarify constitutional issues and maybe preclude such impeachment actions in the future or make people think twice. If Trump ends up impeached under standards that are reasonable and conclusive evidence, then he shouldn't be in office. Listening to the commentaries by lawyers on both sides I am not sure that easy for lay person to grasp the intricacies of the constitutional aspects. Partisan 'warfare' has building for some time, Trumps election and his actions as well as Democrats have made worse, but it isn't going away any time soon.Sure Schiff comes across as a lightweight and not too bright, but hardly is Trump an intellectual giant.

Originally Posted by Boiler

They were discussing this on CNN, even CNN does not think there will be a guilty verdict, we will see. As has been mentioned this is a political process so the determining factor is if the Dems think they have won politically, and that must be a subjective call.

I can not help but think if say Biden won the next election the pressure impeach would be difficult to withstand.

Originally Posted by robin1234

You mean, even if he doesn’t have sex with an intern in the Oval Office?

Originally Posted by Boiler

They were discussing this on CNN, even CNN does not think there will be a guilty verdict, we will see.

Originally Posted by Giantaxe

I don't think anyone had an expectation he'd be convicted by the Senate. After all, that would require a bunch of Republican senators to have a spine.