2016 Election
Nov 17th 2016, 9:13 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,579
Re: 2016 Election
See, that's the kind of thing I was thinking of. Not just fix a bridge here and there, but actually bring the infrastructure of the US out of the 1970s and into the modern world. A massive civil engineering project that will create jobs in a multitude of fields.
That's the goddamn American Dream right there.
That's the goddamn American Dream right there.
Nov 17th 2016, 9:19 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 27,078
Re: 2016 Election
Opponents of the Keystone pipeline noted (accurately) that the employment claims were overblown because the jobs were temporary -- once the thing is built, the need for labor shrinks dramatically. The same thing is true of other infrastructure.
Many of these infrastructure needs are outside of the Rust Belt. (If anything, we should be diverting funds away from most of the worst corners of the Rust Belt to places where the money would be better spent.)
The unemployment rate is already below 5%. These people will have to move in order to get these jobs. DC Koop has devoted a great deal of energy telling you that white people should not be inconvenienced by such things.
So are we supposed to build bridges to Nowhere, Ohio in order to give them jobs within commuting distance? Since these guys apparently want to earn $30 per hour without going anywhere, that's the only option for serving that group.
Many of these infrastructure needs are outside of the Rust Belt. (If anything, we should be diverting funds away from most of the worst corners of the Rust Belt to places where the money would be better spent.)
The unemployment rate is already below 5%. These people will have to move in order to get these jobs. DC Koop has devoted a great deal of energy telling you that white people should not be inconvenienced by such things.
So are we supposed to build bridges to Nowhere, Ohio in order to give them jobs within commuting distance? Since these guys apparently want to earn $30 per hour without going anywhere, that's the only option for serving that group.
Better investment than the useless and overpriced F35' and the joke Litoral navy ships that breakdown every time they set to sea.
Last edited by dakota44; Nov 17th 2016 at 9:23 am.
Nov 17th 2016, 9:20 am
I have a comma problem
Joined: Feb 2009
Location: Fox Lake, IL (from Carrickfergus NI)
Posts: 49,598
Re: 2016 Election
The only downside is that probably 75% of infrastructure work needed is supposed to be the responsibility of individual states or, gas pipelines for example, private enterprise. So the Federal government picking up the tab rewards states and companies that did not live up to their responsibilities. But that has to be ignored and the work done for the benefit of the country as a whole.
There we go.
Nov 17th 2016, 9:21 am
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: 2016 Election
Keystone pipeline is a poor example. Face facts...with the massive infrastructure needs, work would go on for 20 or 30 years. Workers would go from one completed project to another. The massive influx of wages in the economy would create vast numbers of spin off jobs. Your argument seems to be to ignore the problem. A very Republican attitude.
Nov 17th 2016, 9:24 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 27,078
Nov 17th 2016, 9:26 am
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Nova Scotia Canada
Posts: 27,078
Re: 2016 Election
It is very Republican to ignore a problem in favor of tax cuts for the rich and then make feeble excuses to justify it. Or, like you, take one minor component and ridiculously extrapolate it into an indictment of the whole.
Nov 17th 2016, 9:27 am
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Nov 17th 2016, 11:04 am
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,449
Re: 2016 Election
Which makes it stranger that the Republicans hate the type-2 people and yet still get them to vote for the GOP in droves by promising to make it how it used to be. Except it will never happen because no company is going to open a new facility in a place where half the population have already moved out and no one else wants to move there because there is literally nothing left.
...
...
Nov 17th 2016, 11:09 am
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,449
Re: 2016 Election
If the AVERAGE was $75k, and a lot of his supporters were out of work, that suggests a lot of his supporters were much higher - $150k. That would suggest senior management roles. Then again, from my old statistics classes, I recall that 'average' can be very misleading - a few millionaires or billionaires can really skew things. We need mean and standard deviation 
Not really but kind of. It was a news piece about the mythology of the Trump voter being poor, unemployed, disenfranchised and white. The $75,000 figure was thrown around and I honestly don't know how accurate that can possibly be.
However, we do know that a lot of college educated white voters went for Trump. These people are not unemployed factory workers by any stretch of the imagination. What I don't get, is why they found him appealing. I guess that's why I could persuade myself that he would lose --- I didn't think he would appeal to people that were doing okay.
Nov 17th 2016, 11:24 am
Banned
Joined: Dec 2015
Location: california
Posts: 6,035
Re: 2016 Election
One thing I kept hearing about throughout the election campaigns, mostly from Sanders, but I think Trump touched on it as well, is infrastructure. It's no secret that a great deal of roads, bridges and other structures all over the country are in need of repair. Surely if someone is willing to invest in improving this infrastructure and putting measures in place to keep it properly maintained, that kind of a program would generate plenty of local jobs all over the country.
Or am I talking out of my arse again?
Or am I talking out of my arse again?
Nov 17th 2016, 11:25 am
Dunroaming back in UK
Joined: Mar 2012
Location: Expat in Yorkshire now
Posts: 11,325
Re: 2016 Election
However, we do know that a lot of college educated white voters went for Trump. These people are not unemployed factory workers by any stretch of the imagination. What I don't get, is why they found him appealing. I guess that's why I could persuade myself that he would lose --- I didn't think he would appeal to people that were doing okay.
Nov 17th 2016, 11:32 am
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,449
Re: 2016 Election
I tend to think the appeal was relative to the other option available rather than absolute appeal. An Obama 2008 type change candidate for the Dems would have destroyed Trump but the selection of a tired, tainted career politician gave Trump a chance and he got lucky.
Nov 17th 2016, 11:37 am
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: 2016 Election
There is a distinct possibility that I pulled that figure out of my ass.
Not really but kind of. It was a news piece about the mythology of the Trump voter being poor, unemployed, disenfranchised and white. The $75,000 figure was thrown around and I honestly don't know how accurate that can possibly be.
However, we do know that a lot of college educated white voters went for Trump. These people are not unemployed factory workers by any stretch of the imagination. What I don't get, is why they found him appealing. I guess that's why I could persuade myself that he would lose --- I didn't think he would appeal to people that were doing okay.
Not really but kind of. It was a news piece about the mythology of the Trump voter being poor, unemployed, disenfranchised and white. The $75,000 figure was thrown around and I honestly don't know how accurate that can possibly be.
However, we do know that a lot of college educated white voters went for Trump. These people are not unemployed factory workers by any stretch of the imagination. What I don't get, is why they found him appealing. I guess that's why I could persuade myself that he would lose --- I didn't think he would appeal to people that were doing okay.
They're probably among those who have the higher incomes. It can be presumed that a lot of them switched at the last minute, including those who had told pollsters before the election that they were undecided or were voting for Gary Johnson.
7% of registered Republicans voted for Clinton, which is a typical defection rate; in other words, having Trump as the nominee did not encourage an above-average amount of party switching.
A majority of voters who claimed to "strongly support" a particular candidate voted for Clinton. A majority of voters who claimed to be motivated to vote against an opposing candidate opted for Trump.
The voters who made up their minds earlier preferred Clinton. Those who decided at the last minute broke toward Trump.
63% of voters said that Trump "does not have the temperament to be president". Oddly enough, 20% of those who responded in the negative voted for him.
In contrast, 43% of voters said that Clinton "does not have the temperament to be president" and only 5% of those who responded in the negative voted for her.
We don't know from these numbers how many voters on each side simply didn't bother to vote because they didn't like either choice. However, reviewing the data about those who did vote would suggest that unhappy Republicans were more likely to vote for Trump as a lesser of two evils.*
http://edition.cnn.com/election/resu...onal/president
*Obviously, our views on lesser evils differ.
Last edited by RoadWarriorFromLP; Nov 17th 2016 at 11:40 am.
Nov 17th 2016, 11:58 am
Grumpy Know-it-all
Joined: Jul 2010
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 8,928
Re: 2016 Election
On the subject of Keystone XL, the Govt. of Alberta is no longer keen on the idea, primarily because they don't want to agree with Trump, who everyone reckons will now approve it. TransCanada is currently suing under NAFTA over Keystone XL which Trump wants to change or abolish.
If ever there was evidence of something being a purely political football, Keystone XL is it, the actual pros and cons of it have been long since forgotten.
If ever there was evidence of something being a purely political football, Keystone XL is it, the actual pros and cons of it have been long since forgotten.
Nov 17th 2016, 12:06 pm
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: 2016 Election
But then I am not in a tax bracket that seems much if any benefit from tax cuts so my perspective might be different.
