scrubbedexpat099

Sorry Leslie you are of course quite correct.

The Democrat leaning people I know have never defended her, they say better than Trump, which is a definite point of view, but gob smacked that anybody can seriously believe she is not who she is.

My impression is that most people just shake their heads at the total stupidity of the situation and get on with their lives.

Giantaxe

Maybe you should get out more.

"Clinton is seen favorably by 67% of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents"

Clinton Still Has More Negatives Among Dems Than Sanders

RoadWarriorFromLP

You have no particularly good reason to mistrust Clinton. But you obviously enjoy it.

RoadWarriorFromLP

If Boiler feels that it's true, then it must be true.

Leslie

Since when do voters have to defend their candidate? Unless they're campaigning and trying to persuade others, they owe no explanation. You assume everybody is as interested in this discussion as we are.

I don't make a habit of defending her but I have called out some bullshit on this thread. When I decide on a candidate, I'm not going to help the other side but that doesn't make it my responsibility to fight every battle in Hillary's defense.

I will defend Hillary on Benghazi though. That was a disgusting display by the Republicans. It was evil and stupid. Gowdy and his henchmen should be brought up on charges for the fraud they perpetrated on the American taxpayers.

My main problem with the Clintons is the sense of entitlement. The way they apply a different set of rules to themselves. A lot of lawyers do that and then find a way to make it legal. That's still not enough to make me vote for a lunatic.

Leslie

I'll defend Hillary a little more, thank you for asking.

There's no doubt in my mind that she is brilliant and competent and will absolutely put the needs and safety of the US first and foremost if she is so fortunate as to serve.

dakota44

Agreed. Not to mention...when it comes to trustworthy...she will be far more trustworthy when it comes to the nuclear codes....and not being Putins lapdog. Trump? Would not trust him with the keys to the Quicky Mart.

morpeth

You mention facts, I point out one, and you dont answer why it wasn't a fact.

Even commentators who I would consider pro-Clinton have raised questions about her responses about the emails. And I do believe that the polls showing the majority distrust her does show there is some reason many do not trust her for what they consider valid reasons. One can distrust her but still believe overall she would be a better candidate.

Trump represents something else- I believe in his case he doesn't know he tells lies, which is perhaps even worse. I wonder how he would do in a Congressional hearing.

I would agree there is this anti Clinton crowd that is fanatically against her, and her husband for some time- and show a propensity to believe any criticism of her whether reasonable or not.Then there are Congressman who are quite willing to spend taxpayer money on such things as the Benghazi hearings.

And considering how many politicians seem to be, such as Nixon or Johnson, is she so different.

No I don't enjoy the country having these two candidates, nor extreme partisan behavior on either side.

RoadWarriorFromLP

Bloody hell, do you actually pay attention to what you say?

I didn't dispute the fact that there is the "Clinton isn't trustworthy" meme. What I said is that it wasn't based upon anything substantive.

You haven't offered a single substantive reason why anyone shouldn't trust Hillary Clinton. You've simply accepted as a given that your feelings on the subject count for something.

To be blunt, I couldn't give a crap about your feelings. I prefer facts, and you have none. Just because the other kids are doing it, too, doesn't mean that it makes any sense.

scrubbedexpat099

If either party had put up even a half decent candidate they would have walked it.

Trump sounds more and more like Il Duce, still hoping he implodes, please....

I am not going to go through Hillary's failings, would probably take a lifetime to list them.

Interesting article:

Why Hasn’t the Republican Party Collapsed? - POLITICO Magazine

morpeth

I believe it has nothing to do with feelings that comparing her public comments about the emails, and the comments of the FBI director that it is unreasonable to doubt whether she is trustworthy; or consider her comments about being under sniper fire for that matter. The FBI director pointing out she was extremely careless isn't exactly a support for her being considered trustworthy.

She is not the first politician nor the last to have this issue.

Oakvillian

Listen - you two going round and round in circles isn't adding anything to this fascinating discussion. Let me try to help:

It is a fact that Clinton's "trustworthiness" polling scores are low.
It is a fact that Trump's "trustworthiness" polling scores are lower still.
It is a fact that, at the moment, Clinton's share-of-vote polling scores are better than Trump's.
It is a fact that, at the moment, Clinton's share-of-electoral-college-votes polling scores are better than Trump's.

There are many, many potential reasons why those facts pertain. A lot of them - particular in respect of the trustworthiness stuff - are based on opinions and "feelings." But the reality is that it matters not one iota that they're grounded in feelings and opinions - the polling scores are no less factual than if everything was backed up and referenced with three irrefutable independent sources.

So, people tend not to trust Clinton, for various and possibly unfathomable reasons. But they'll vote for her anyway, since the alternative is even less palatable. Can we move on now?

SultanOfSwing

I admire your optimism, there. Maybe we can move on in November, though as it's pretty likely Clinton will win, we will still have to hear about it no doubt.

Oakvillian

Well, yes. The conversation itself won't move much - I was rather just trying to persuade Morpeth and RoadWarrior to wind it in a bit on the facts vs feelings issue.

Of course, there are "facts," and then there are actual facty facts, made with real fact in a fact factory. I was disheartened, but not even slightly surprised, to see the email truthers in Congress at it again pushing for a perjury charge over discrepancies in her testimony. FFS, you pathetic people, this is now barely even one step removed from a Pythonesque "burn her, she's a witch" farce.

scrubbedexpat099

Hmm just seeing a black stripe now.