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Old Jan 15th 2016 | 6:18 pm
  #3196  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
Yeah in the days of the Shah. When that little ray of sunshine the Ayatollah Khomeini took power after living in exile for years in France he had a real hard on for America who he blamed for keeping the Shah on the throne.
With good reason given CIA involvement in the 1953 coup that overthrew the government and established the Shah in power.
 
Old Jan 15th 2016 | 7:49 pm
  #3197  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
The ultimate evil empire. If they all disappeared tomorrow I wouldn't shed a tear.
As for providing jobs of any substance
I would shed a tear. If Walmart disappeared, we'd have to drive fifty miles in either direction to get to a store. We have drugstores, supermarkets, hardware stores, dollar stores .... but Walmart is our only proper department store. And it wasn't Walmart that killed off the locally based clothing stores, shoe shops, department stores etc. They all disappeared decades before Walmart opened.

We know plenty of people who work at Walmart, in general they are happy with the job & the pay check.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 1:27 am
  #3198  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

My nearest Walmart is an hours drive away, actually there are probably 3 in different directions that far away.

Not too concerned about them filling the gap.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 2:30 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
With good reason given CIA involvement in the 1953 coup that overthrew the government and established the Shah in power.
That's true of course but we made the wrong enemy in that part of the world when we took on Saddam after his invasion of Kuwait. It was Thatcher who had a lot to do with getting Bush Senior on board for the military operation to oust Saddam's army from that country which historically had been part of Iraq after it had been carved out from what had been the Ottoman empire.

Had we really backed Saddam to the fullest in his war against Iran that might have resulted in the end of the Ayatollah and his regime which were the real threat to stability in that part of the world. it wasn't Iraq. Iraq was secular and far less strict in enforcing Islamic law than were either Saudi or Iran. Instead we sent mixed signals to Saddam, first treating him as any ally in his war against Iran then turning around and declaring war on him after he took over Kuwait.

Saddam was undoubtedly a despot but despots are a penny a dozen and he was no threat to the west after his defeat in the first gulf war. Certainly he had no part in 9/11 but we invaded on a trumped up charge of having WMDs which very soon after having occupied the country were found to be completely without foundation.

Toppling Saddam played right into the hands of Iran as it turned out and Iran took full advantage of it
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 2:33 am
  #3200  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
That's true of course but we made the wrong enemy in that part of the world when we took on Saddam after his invasion of Kuwait. It was Thatcher who had a lot to do with getting Bush Senior on board for the military operation to oust Saddam's army from that country which historically had been part of Iraq after it had been carved out from what had been the Ottoman empire.

Had we really backed Saddam to the fullest in his war against Iran that might have resulted in the end of the Ayatollah and his regime which were the real threat to stability in that part of the world. it wasn't Iraq. Iraq was secular and far less strict in enforcing Islamic law than were either Saudi or Iran. Instead we sent mixed signals to Saddam, first treating him as any ally in his war against Iran then turning around and declaring war on him after he took over Kuwait.

Saddam was undoubtedly a despot but despots are a penny a dozen and he was no threat to the west after his defeat in the first gulf war. Certainly he had no part in 9/11 but we invaded on a trumped up charge of having WMDs which very soon after having occupied the country were found to be completely without foundation.

Toppling Saddam played right into the hands of Iran as it turned out and Iran took full advantage of it
How, pray tell, did Iran take "full advantage of it"? What is "it"??
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 2:51 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by robin1234
I would shed a tear. If Walmart disappeared, we'd have to drive fifty miles in either direction to get to a store. We have drugstores, supermarkets, hardware stores, dollar stores .... but Walmart is our only proper department store. And it wasn't Walmart that killed off the locally based clothing stores, shoe shops, department stores etc. They all disappeared decades before Walmart opened.

We know plenty of people who work at Walmart, in general they are happy with the job & the pay check.




Not what the general opinion is. Walmart has now become the employer of people who before the big corporations closed shop and moved to China had enjoyed a measure of prosperity working in a country that still produced stuff for it's own market. From once being pretty well paid industrial workers they've moved down a notch to the near "working poor" and a part of the steady decline of the middle class which has been taking place over the past 40 years.

Walmart places no value on it's employees and neither do they give a fig about the people who produce their cheap clothing, people who make 25 cents an hour working 12 or more hours a day in Bangladesh or Guatemala .

It's a corporation without any soul whatsoever
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 2:54 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
Toppling Saddam played right into the hands of Iran as it turned out and Iran took full advantage of it
Iran hasn't invaded anybody since the overthrow of the US puppet Shah was overthrown. And the country has no imperial ambitions that anyone can see. It opposes Israel's brutal occupation of Palestine, and indeed Israel's own imperial ambitions. We see maps of an intended "Greater Israel", but none of an intended "Greater Iran". Even the US propaganda machine hasn't created a fake one of those, because it wouldn't be believable.

I doubt if there is full freedom of expression in Iran today, but there wasn't under the US puppet, either. I backpacked through Iran when the Shah was in charge, and he inspired fear and loathing in the middle classes at that time. He was a murderous psychopath.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 3:06 am
  #3203  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
[/B]

Not what the general opinion is. Walmart has now become the employer of people who before the big corporations closed shop and moved to China had enjoyed a measure of prosperity working in a country that still produced stuff for it's own market. From once being pretty well paid industrial workers they've moved down a notch to the near "working poor" and a part of the steady decline of the middle class which has been taking place over the past 40 years.

Walmart places no value on it's employees and neither do they give a fig about the people who produce their cheap clothing, people who make 25 cents an hour working 12 or more hours a day in Bangladesh or Guatemala .

It's a corporation without any soul whatsoever
Where we live there has never been any industrial employment or large corporations nearby. Family farms have gradually gone out of business and the only well paid employment for those without a college degree is in the prisons, law enforcement, or other government work such as highways or social services. Many people get by on various part time jobs in fast food or retail. In general Walmart is no worse than other employers in this sector.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 3:08 am
  #3204  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Shard
How, pray tell, did Iran take "full advantage of it"? What is "it"??
It means interfering in Iraq's internal affairs, encouraging the sectarian warfare between Shi'ite and Sunni which meant that what should have been an Iraqi government made up of both factions never happened. The Sunnis had no part of power sharing and what you have now is ISIS which is led by former Iraqi military leaders (Sunnis) and well trained in the art of warfare as the west is now finding out. Iran has also been an active supporter of such groups as Hamas.

It could well be that we may find ourselves lined up in a misbegotten alliance with Iran in helping to defeat ISIS but it was first Bush and later the Iranian leaders who did much to cause it's creation in the first place

Last edited by dc koop; Jan 16th 2016 at 3:10 am.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 3:25 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Gordon Barlow
Iran hasn't invaded anybody since the overthrow of the US puppet Shah was overthrown. And the country has no imperial ambitions that anyone can see. It opposes Israel's brutal occupation of Palestine, and indeed Israel's own imperial ambitions. We see maps of an intended "Greater Israel", but none of an intended "Greater Iran". Even the US propaganda machine hasn't created a fake one of those, because it wouldn't be believable.

I doubt if there is full freedom of expression in Iran today, but there wasn't under the US puppet, either. I backpacked through Iran when the Shah was in charge, and he inspired fear and loathing in the middle classes at that time. He was a murderous psychopath.
I'm aware of that but all that replaced the Shah were a bunch of murdering Ayatollahs. Is Iran any better off today after 40 odd years as a strict Islamic republic? Iran doesn't need to have any territorial ambitions. The ambition of it's leaders is to spread Iran's influence around that part of the world by undermining any government that is pro-western.

We think we've made a deal with Iran in exchange for curbing it's nuclear ambitions? Wait ten years down the road and see what happens
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 3:35 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by robin1234
Where we live there has never been any industrial employment or large corporations nearby. Family farms have gradually gone out of business and the only well paid employment for those without a college degree is in the prisons, law enforcement, or other government work such as highways or social services. Many people get by on various part time jobs in fast food or retail. In general Walmart is no worse than other employers in this sector.
A sad reminder of what happens when a country's primary industrial base moves off shore in search of cheaper labour.

Part time jobs in such places as McDonald's were once done by college students to help earn a few extra bucks. Now they've become jobs that many people rely on to support themselves that's true but now that the minimum wage is to be increased there'll be quite a few lay offs coming no doubt and those left will have to double up on the work load
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 4:00 am
  #3207  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Oops diplomacy strikes again!

Jason Rezaian and three other US prisoners freed in Iran - BBC News
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 4:21 am
  #3208  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
A sad reminder of what happens when a country's primary industrial base moves off shore in search of cheaper labour.

Part time jobs in such places as McDonald's were once done by college students to help earn a few extra bucks. Now they've become jobs that many people rely on to support themselves that's true but now that the minimum wage is to be increased there'll be quite a few lay offs coming no doubt and those left will have to double up on the work load
That certainly applies to the Lehigh Valley of Pennsylvania. It used to have Bethlehem Steel, Mack Trucks (as a major employer), Western Electric and numerous steel fabricators and cement mills. There were also many silk mills and dress factories supplying employment mostly for women. The Steel is gone, Mack merged with Volvo and moved most of its production south and WE now has a ghost plant with a few employees in Allentown. Most of this was basic industrial manufacture and the jobs went south where the labour costs were less.

Now the primary employers are the hospitals and Lehigh and Northampton County governments. So it is probably insurance and government transfer payments that are keeping the local economy afloat.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 4:46 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Leslie
You lose all credibility in future flounces and crying of foul. Now, try to behave yourself.
Alright, Leslie.

I had only been trying to make a simple and self-evident point about the value of propaganda; and how the opportunity to score a minor point and damage the hard-line Republican presidential candidates had been lost. But that innocent little observation was instantly and derisively contested by the usual suspect. Hence my frustration.

In the end the Iranians handled the sailor situation well and are now reaping the further propaganda benefits of releasing four other hostages - reminiscent of the spy swaps during the Cold War. I suspect the Ayatollah Khamenei did take the IRG hotheads to the woodshed.
 
Old Jan 16th 2016 | 4:58 am
  #3210  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by dc koop
It means interfering in Iraq's internal affairs, encouraging the sectarian warfare between Shi'ite and Sunni which meant that what should have been an Iraqi government made up of both factions never happened. The Sunnis had no part of power sharing and what you have now is ISIS which is led by former Iraqi military leaders (Sunnis) and well trained in the art of warfare as the west is now finding out. Iran has also been an active supporter of such groups as Hamas.

It could well be that we may find ourselves lined up in a misbegotten alliance with Iran in helping to defeat ISIS but it was first Bush and later the Iranian leaders who did much to cause it's creation in the first place
Thanks for the explanation. It can't have been Iran that prevented the Sunnis from sharing power. They are a completely separate country, and there was no rapprochement with the USA at the time the USA occupied Iraq. I think you are indicting Iran on very spurious grounds.
 


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