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Old Jan 7th 2016 | 4:31 am
  #2881  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Anian
If Republicans don't care then it very easily exposes how fake their outrage was about Obama's birthplace.
Perhaps the main difference is that, unlike Cruz, Obama spent five years and a couple of million dollars hiding his birth certificate, as well as every other marker of his existence in colleges and at Harvard, plus the media failed or refused to vet him at all.

[Thus the sense developed (not held by me) that he is not a legitimate "natural born" American qualified to be President and further that he was a KGB plant; and that they or the Saudis paid for his college and paved his way into politics. That is the urban legend that has attached to our current Maximum Leader.]

Cruz made his actual birth certificate available (not an easily altered photocopy) and renounced his Canadian citizenship. So, since being called a "birther" is similar to being called a racist, Republicans are simply applying the Obama Rule to Cruz. Democrats should honor the Obama Rule when it comes to Cruz or potentially face a backlash from Hispanics.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 4:41 am
  #2882  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Anian
If Republicans don't care then it very easily exposes how fake their outrage was about Obama's birthplace.
Well to be fair, it looks like the famous Panamanian is weighing in on the side of the doubters.

McCain unsure whether Cruz is eligible for presidency

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Perhaps the main difference is that, unlike Cruz, Obama spent five years and a couple of million dollars hiding his birth certificate, as well as every other marker of his existence in colleges and at Harvard, plus the media failed or refused to vet him at all.
*cough*bullshit*cough*

Obama's legal fees - Obama Conspiracy Theories

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...sport-records/
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 4:43 am
  #2883  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Perhaps the main difference is that, unlike Cruz, Obama spent five years and a couple of million dollars hiding his birth certificate, as well as every other marker of his existence in colleges and at Harvard, plus the media failed or refused to vet him at all.

[Thus the sense developed (not held by me) that he is not a legitimate "natural born" American qualified to be President and further that he was a KGB plant; and that they or the Saudis paid for his college and paved his way into politics. That is the urban legend that has attached to our current Maximum Leader.]

Cruz made his actual birth certificate available (not an easily altered photocopy) and renounced his Canadian citizenship. So, since being called a "birther" is similar to being called a racist, Republicans are simply applying the Obama Rule to Cruz. Democrats should honor the Obama Rule when it comes to Cruz or potentially face a backlash from Hispanics.
Not one non-Republican in this discussion has questioned Cruz's status as a natural born American, save to joke about the ridiculousness of the birther movement way back when.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 4:46 am
  #2884  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Perhaps the main difference is that, unlike Cruz, Obama spent five years and a couple of million dollars hiding his birth certificate, as well as every other marker of his existence in colleges and at Harvard, plus the media failed or refused to vet him at all.

[Thus the sense developed (not held by me) that he is not a legitimate "natural born" American qualified to be President and further that he was a KGB plant; and that they or the Saudis paid for his college and paved his way into politics. That is the urban legend that has attached to our current Maximum Leader.]

Cruz made his actual birth certificate available (not an easily altered photocopy) and renounced his Canadian citizenship. So, since being called a "birther" is similar to being called a racist, Republicans are simply applying the Obama Rule to Cruz. Democrats should honor the Obama Rule when it comes to Cruz or potentially face a backlash from Hispanics.
Just when I think you can't get any more batshit crazy, you surpass yourself. Well done.

I don't even know why I'm asking this, but I don't suppose you have any evidence that Obama spent millions of dollars trying to hide is birth certificate/transcripts/kindergarten photos.

As for the racist aspect, a lot of that comes from the fact that no one was questioning the legitimacy about the (white) All American American war hero John McCain who just happened to be born in Panama.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 4:51 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by FlaviusAetius
Perhaps the main difference is that, unlike Cruz, Obama spent five years and a couple of million dollars hiding his birth certificate, as well as every other marker of his existence in colleges and at Harvard, plus the media failed or refused to vet him at all.
Why should he have? He released his short-form birth certificate in '07 and the State of Hawaii confirmed that he was born there. End of story, except for the crazies.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 4:54 am
  #2886  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Trump (sort of) has a point. Cruz's US citizenship is not a right per the 14th amendment, but is the byproduct of federal law. That would mean that he is naturalized, which would indicate that he is not a natural born citizen.

But Congress has defined "natural born" in the past, and it included the foreign born in its definition. It could do so again.

I can't see many Democrats objecting to the idea or the current president vetoing it, so a simple piece of legislation could fix this once and for all. Of course, the Teahadists would be shameless hypocrites to approve of such a thing, but when has consistency ever stopped them?
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:02 am
  #2887  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
Trump (sort of) has a point. Cruz's US citizenship is not a right per the 14th amendment, but is the byproduct of federal law. That would mean that he is naturalized, which would indicate that he is not a natural born citizen.

But Congress has defined "natural born" in the past, and it included the foreign born in its definition. It could do so again.

I can't see many Democrats objecting to the idea or the current president vetoing it, so a simple piece of legislation could fix this once and for all. Of course, the Teahadists would be shameless hypocrites to approve of such a thing, but when has consistency ever stopped them?
Surely SR511 would cover it if they just scribbled out McCain and wrote Cruz.

Last edited by zargof; Jan 7th 2016 at 5:08 am.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:10 am
  #2888  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
Why should he have? He released his short-form birth certificate in '07 and the State of Hawaii confirmed that he was born there. End of story, except for the crazies.
Republicans enjoy acting like drama queens and getting everyone to comply with their demands. If they were kids, then we would dismiss them as spoiled brats and leave it at that.

Frankly, I think that Obama should have told them to pound sand. Responses to right-wing tantrums should be left to their mothers.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:18 am
  #2889  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Just checked and apparently renowned constitutional law expert Oily Taint doesn't think Cruz is eligible to be President, so I guess he's SOL.

Ted Cruz Inherits 'Birthers' With Presidential Bid - US News
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:21 am
  #2890  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof
Surely SR511 would cover it if they just scribbled out McCain and wrote Cruz.
McCain could make a good argument that he was born on US soil. Unless we want to believe that Calgary is a suburb of Boise, Cruz obviously can't do that.

I would think that a law that applies generally to the foreign born would be necessary; a Senate resolution wouldn't be enough.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:29 am
  #2891  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
McCain could make a good argument that he was born on US soil. Unless we want to believe that Calgary is a suburb of Boise, Cruz obviously can't do that.

I would think that a law that applies generally to the foreign born would be necessary; a Senate resolution wouldn't be enough.

This
seems to suggest that the Naturalization Act of 1790 covers it.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:33 am
  #2892  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
McCain could make a good argument that he was born on US soil. Unless we want to believe that Calgary is a suburb of Boise, Cruz obviously can't do that.

I would think that a law that applies generally to the foreign born would be necessary; a Senate resolution wouldn't be enough.
This little throw away line in SR511 is illuminating:

"Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;"
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:41 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by zargof

This
seems to suggest that the Naturalization Act of 1790 covers it.
The 1790 law has been replaced many times over. It no longer applies.

But that does indicate that Congress has the authority to define "natural born" if it wishes.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:45 am
  #2894  
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by RoadWarriorFromLP
The 1790 law has been replaced many times over. It no longer applies.

But that does indicate that Congress has the authority to define "natural born" if it wishes.
It also indicates the original intent of "natural born" as well.
 
Old Jan 7th 2016 | 5:47 am
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Default Re: 2016 Election

Originally Posted by sir_eccles
This little throw away line in SR511 is illuminating:

"Whereas previous presidential candidates were born outside of the United States of America and were understood to be eligible to be President;"
Barry Goldwater was born in Arizona when it was a territory, not a state. I don't think that anyone claimed that he couldn't run.
 


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