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wood burning stove installation

wood burning stove installation

Old Dec 4th 2010, 6:25 pm
  #16  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by angiescarr
Yeah I know. We've had this conversation before. This one has a 90 degree rear exit. Apparently these are reccomended by the company who made them for woodburners, and anyway, was all the ferreteria had. But they put 45 degree rear exits on multifuel stoves (which may be the same stove) At the moment we have the 90 degree one but it's not out of reach for cleaning. We Brits are more used to coal burning and I'm sure you're right about avoiding 90 degree bends further up.

HBG I used the fireplace in my rental without a grate for 5 years not often because we weren't there a lot.. I was happy to do so as long as there was a good draw up the chimney. But you can buy a grate for about 35 euros from Leroy merlin. Check the size before you buy.
I found it inefficient compared with the stove though.
interesting the upside dow fire building. I have been having this argument with my husband for ages. I keep telling him it seems to work better to get the heat going up the chimney quick, to create the 'draw' but that he needs a big log in the middle. I hadn't realised that it was that simple though! Makes absolute sense at least in my woodburner.
Don't understand the ash-bed thing though. That wouldn't apply to us but I'm interested to hear why. esp as it would seem to preclude air flow... Bil?
Grates are for coal. Coal is a slow fuel, so it needs to be held up out of its ash so it can burn as quickly as possible.

Wood is a fast fuel. Held up on a grate it gives more flame, and flame sends heat up the chimney. Embers are what you want. So, you burn it on an ash bed to choke it into making more embers.

The reason for the upside down is that the small hot bits fall onto the wood, and not thru the bars at the bottom where they are wasted.
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Old Dec 6th 2010, 3:46 pm
  #17  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

As Bil says, never use 90 degree bends, amongst other various problems, when you doze off you may never wake up.
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Old Dec 6th 2010, 6:22 pm
  #18  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Why do the flues have a 45 degree bend in them? Why not just straight up?
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Old Dec 6th 2010, 10:56 pm
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by Bri and Katee
Why do the flues have a 45 degree bend in them? Why not just straight up?
The simple answer is that you shouldn't have them unless you HAVE to deviate from the vertical, ie going out thru the wall rather than going up thru the roof.

In the UK, they routinely put bends in flues that are unnecessary, as for a long time they stopped building flues, and when they went back to doing them they looked at how the Victorians did it, and in most chimneys the victorians put bends, so everyone copied it. Unfortunately they didn't use their brains. The Victorians built them with bends where there was a fireplace upstairs, and they never put a bend in a bedroom chimney.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 7:30 am
  #20  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Cheers Bill. We are going to install one in our lounge which already has a fireplace for an insert type. Trouble is the builder didn't make the cavity big enough for an insert!

So the chimney breast is going to come out and we will install a free standing burner, the chimney is already lined with what looks like either aluminium or stainless steel liner, so will try and work around that.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 11:25 am
  #21  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by Bri and Katee
Cheers Bill. We are going to install one in our lounge which already has a fireplace for an insert type. Trouble is the builder didn't make the cavity big enough for an insert!

So the chimney breast is going to come out and we will install a free standing burner, the chimney is already lined with what looks like either aluminium or stainless steel liner, so will try and work around that.
If the liner is aluminium, the flexible, concertina type, then removing it is the best option as the acidic gasses will usually rot it out badly.

Stainless is far more rigid and durable, and if it has been lined with this, then you ought to be able to connect the liner to the stove's rigid pipe if you are careful. Just be sure that the stainless tube isn't smaller internally than the exit tube on the stove itself.

I'm a little puzzled as to why the flue was lined with this. Usually it implies that the chimney leaked fumes badly or had some other problem, or had a gas fire fitted.

Any ideas wrto that?

PS, if the liner is stainless, be very careful how you handle it. I advise puting duct tape over the cut edges before you handle it eg when removing it if you have to. That stuff is like a giant razor blade and will cut to the bone. I've been careless with it in my time, and cut myself badly, so please learn from that.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 9:24 pm
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Not too sure what the builder was playing at when he put the thing in. Iv'e included a picture of it from our viewing trip 5 years ago. As you can probably see the height and width of the opening is no problem, but the depth of it is only 8 inches then both sides angle in at 45 degrees to form a 'hole' that is only 1 foot in depth (front to back)

Because of that angle we can't get a insert to go in. The liner goes up the inside of the chimney and terminates through the roof in a standard stack. The liner last time I looked appeared to be surrounded by some sort of material, not too sure now as I blocked it off a couple years back to stop draughts and bird poo appearing at the bottom

It's currently got a coal buring grate stood in it with a few logs in the basket for show. But to stay warm next winter its definately going to have to be functional rather than for show. Karen doesn't want to lose the chimney feature, but whichever way I look at it, the thing is going to need some major reformation work to get a burner of any description in it.
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Old Dec 7th 2010, 9:47 pm
  #23  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by Bri and Katee
Not too sure what the builder was playing at when he put the thing in. Iv'e included a picture of it from our viewing trip 5 years ago. As you can probably see the height and width of the opening is no problem, but the depth of it is only 8 inches then both sides angle in at 45 degrees to form a 'hole' that is only 1 foot in depth (front to back)

Because of that angle we can't get a insert to go in. The liner goes up the inside of the chimney and terminates through the roof in a standard stack. The liner last time I looked appeared to be surrounded by some sort of material, not too sure now as I blocked it off a couple years back to stop draughts and bird poo appearing at the bottom

It's currently got a coal buring grate stood in it with a few logs in the basket for show. But to stay warm next winter its definately going to have to be functional rather than for show. Karen doesn't want to lose the chimney feature, but whichever way I look at it, the thing is going to need some major reformation work to get a burner of any description in it.
What I would do is remove the chimney structure up to the ceiling, making sure that this creates no structural problems.

I would then stick a corner unit, ie triangular stove with the pipe coming out of the top (rear exit stoves can be a pain) and lead the rigid pipes up into the chimney flue. You need to protect the walls either side of the stove from overheating and loosening the plaster.
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Old Dec 8th 2010, 3:41 pm
  #24  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Hi Bil an other forum users,

I am about to install one of the barrel style estufa'a like what has been mentioned in previous posts. It's going in a wooden house. I don't want to use any 90 degree bends and I don't wany to make any holes in the roof. I've drawn a plan taking into account the tiled overhanging roof of where I think the whole for the exiting pipe must go if I use a 45 degree bend. By my calculation (that is questionable) I will need to put the 45 codo virtually straight onto the vertical exit from the burner in order for the pipe to continue out and miss the roof with a view to another bend after getting round the roof and up.... Is this acceptable ?
Also I'm not bothered about the loss of heat not having much pipe inside as I think the burner will provide sauna like conditions anyway.

Thanks in advance,

Hudson
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Old Dec 8th 2010, 4:37 pm
  #25  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by hudson
Hi Bil an other forum users,

I am about to install one of the barrel style estufa'a like what has been mentioned in previous posts. It's going in a wooden house. I don't want to use any 90 degree bends and I don't wany to make any holes in the roof. I've drawn a plan taking into account the tiled overhanging roof of where I think the whole for the exiting pipe must go if I use a 45 degree bend. By my calculation (that is questionable) I will need to put the 45 codo virtually straight onto the vertical exit from the burner in order for the pipe to continue out and miss the roof with a view to another bend after getting round the roof and up.... Is this acceptable ?
Also I'm not bothered about the loss of heat not having much pipe inside as I think the burner will provide sauna like conditions anyway.

Thanks in advance,

Hudson
No probs, happy to help. Generally, the rule is, if you must have a bend, have it as far up and the least from the vertical as you possibly can.

Back to the real world tho, if that's what you have to do, that's what you have to do. It should work fine, as 45 is ok, and as you say wasted heat via the flue pipe isn't an issue. Just one thing, the more important if you are having a long exterior run of single skin pipe.

Outside that pipe will shed heat like there is no tomorrow, and if it sheds enough, then the fluegasses will start to condense out in the flue, causing creosotes to run down inside the pipe, which can cause all sorts of problems.

If you can, insulating the outside pipe could be a good idea.

'm sure that you have already thought of this, but if the house is wooden, extreme care needs to be taken in piercing a wooden wall with a pipe that can, under certain conditions, golw white hot. The usual rule there is that the flu pipe must be 3 times its diameter away from all such wood etc.

In short, a six inch pipe passing thru a wood wall needs to be centered in a hole 42 inches in diameter. No, that is not a misprint. The hole can be 26 inches in diameter PROVIDED you can adequately shield the wood from the heat, but shielding it is quite a business. Remember it isn't just the bit that goes thru, but it also has to be shielded from the pipe leading to the hole where that pipe is less than 18 inches from the wood.

Feel free to ask questions, I'd hate to see the consequences of a screw up here.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 7:17 pm
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Please could someone recommend a reliable expert who is either in Cadiz province or would be prepared to come to the area to help us clear up a problem with a Morso Squirrel, which is now malfunctioning? Thank you in advance.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 9:08 pm
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

I wounder if anyone knows the answer to this one question that has been puzzling me.

I have read online that fitting a wood burner should have the joints in the metaflue with the narrow bit facing down so that any sap from the wood or crap can run back down inside and not out. If you look at the stoves in Spain they all seem to have the wide bit at the bottom ie/ starting on top of the fire so that the top end of that pipe pointing up, would be the narrow end and then the next piece will slip over it, facing down, thus allowing this sap to run out, what is the answer, anyone know?
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 9:11 pm
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by anonimouse
I wounder if anyone knows the answer to this one question that has been puzzling me.

I have read online that fitting a wood burner should have the joints in the metaflue with the narrow bit facing down so that any sap from the wood or crap can run back down inside and not out. If you look at the stoves in Spain they all seem to have the wide bit at the bottom ie/ starting on top of the fire so that the top end of that pipe pointing up, would be the narrow end and then the next piece will slip over it, facing down, thus allowing this sap to run out, what is the answer, anyone know?
The opposite way to the Spanish.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 9:39 pm
  #29  
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

That's about it.

Basically, on the top of the stove, there should be a female socket. The first length of flue pipe should then fit male end down into that, and repeat so that at the very top there is always an open female socket.

There's a lot of people can't grasp this. The simple reason is that you want that creosote/tar liquid to run down the flue and into the stove, without it trickling out onto the outside of the flue where it will get heated and stink the room out.
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Old Jan 1st 2011, 10:01 pm
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Default Re: wood burning stove installation

Originally Posted by bil
That's about it.

Basically, on the top of the stove, there should be a female socket. The first length of flue pipe should then fit male end down into that, and repeat so that at the very top there is always an open female socket.

There's a lot of people can't grasp this. The simple reason is that you want that creosote/tar liquid to run down the flue and into the stove, without it trickling out onto the outside of the flue where it will get heated and stink the room out.
Yes exactly, but what I am trying to say is, all the fires I see here in Spain have all been made with male tops, if you like to call it that, or is there some adapter you can buy to fit on the stove top, that's what I can't understand.

I have asked many Spanish builders and the merchants selling the fires and they have all showed me how it's done by just placing the tube on top of the stove in what I consider to be the wrong way up.

Should the narrow end fit inside the top of the fire then rather than the way they show me ie/wide end over top lip?

Last edited by anonimouse; Jan 1st 2011 at 10:05 pm.
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