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winter fuel payment

winter fuel payment

Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:52 am
  #181  
 
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
Hi Domino
What makes you think I did not contribute to the "ordinary working" man's pension? I paid my taxes like all others. I also contributed to the scheme I was in for 37 years.
typical CS, read it the way you want to read it.
we all contribute to the Govt retirement pension
only you never contributed to private sector pensions in the same way as tax payers money is used to subsidise the gold plated CS pension.
now will wait for you to say you paid in twice, thru contributions + via taxation.......

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
I get the impression that you are unhappy with with your lot and even more unhappy with the lot of anyone who is apparently now paid more than you in retirement? You do seem to project the idea that we were somehow swaddled in cotton wool throughout our working lives and then drowned in money when leaving our jobs? .
funny that those on private pensions are being told that due to the current situation expect a reduction of 30%+ in expected pension payment whilst CS remains untouched as usual.

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
I just feel you are somehow reflecting your unhappiness on to others. .
nope, just telling it as it is, there are those in the community who can retire at 55 or 60 on more than those who have worked to 65 or more because the former have a gold plated pension that cannot be raided by government, employer or crooks, not hit by vagaries of the money market which they have no control over..

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
I certainly feel for those who have been conned by dubious financial advisers, those who have been and are still being misled by politicians who say they never realised that the population of older people would increase so much so soon (thus they have to make cuts) as the government has always had a small army of statisticians to feed them figures yet chose to ignore them as it was never expedient to address the looming problem

Best regards

jonboy
is that an admission that the over paid over pensioned civil service actually did some bean counting and no one listened to them ?? small wonder, when spending £billions on NHS computer systems that don't work, £millions on HMRC taxation systems that don't work, £millions on Immigration systems that lose hundreds of people every year. But as was said to Jim Hacker "Yes Minister" no matter what the question was.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:55 am
  #182  
 
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by bil View Post
What's needed with police pensions, is that when they have to pay compensation to the public, it should come out of their pension pot.
thats too sensible an idea
especially when they are allowed to take early retirement rather than face the music
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 9:42 am
  #183  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

I agree that if we are damaged by someone's negligence, we should be able to sue them personally, and I think we already can.

When I was a young boy the local policemen clipped me round the ear when he caught me nicking something. When my stepfather found out he punched me several times.

Years later a surgeon operated on my leg after I had been shot and didn't clear all the pellets from the bone. I needed a lot more operations and still walk with a limp.

Now there are three people I should really sue. I wonder if I can get legal aid?

(I can't sue the horrible bastard who shot me because he's dead).
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 9:48 am
  #184  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
thats too sensible an idea
especially when they are allowed to take early retirement rather than face the music
Yeah. The job of a police officer is a noble calling, and worthy of real respect. Anyone who carries it out without being corrupted, IMO deserves high praise and a good wage.

Those that betray those precepts deserve punishing severely.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 9:54 am
  #185  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by HBG View Post
I agree that if we are damaged by someone's negligence, we should be able to sue them personally, and I think we already can.

When I was a young boy the local policemen clipped me round the ear when he caught me nicking something. When my stepfather found out he punched me several times.

Years later a surgeon operated on my leg after I had been shot and didn't clear all the pellets from the bone. I needed a lot more operations and still walk with a limp.

Now there are three people I should really sue. I wonder if I can get legal aid?

(I can't sue the horrible bastard who shot me because he's dead).
Not really. Your step father, I'd like to see someone a lot bigger than him go beat the crap out of him so he could feel what it's like. Had he given you a slap, that I can live with.

The surgeon, they should operate to their best ability, and there should be a no fault payout for something like that. Some of the pellets could have been hidden from the X ray by the edge of a bone. It's not unknown.

A clip round the ear? as long as the person concerned keeps it to that and when needed, better that than a criminal record.

I don't believe in pillorying the police, but where they make mistakes, they sould apologise promptly and properly, and such cases should have the same no fault payouts. However, when a police officer takes the law into their own hands, and acts corruptly, especially where that results in the imprisonment of innocent people, then that should be penalised heavily, and in such a way as to discourage a fellow officer from turning a blind eye.

I object very strongly to tax payers' money being used to compensate the victims of police corruption, while the officers responsible swan off into retirement and a good pension.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 9:57 am
  #186  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
typical CS, read it the way you want to read it.
we all contribute to the Govt retirement pension
only you never contributed to private sector pensions in the same way as tax payers money is used to subsidise the gold plated CS pension.
now will wait for you to say you paid in twice, thru contributions + via taxation.......



funny that those on private pensions are being told that due to the current situation expect a reduction of 30%+ in expected pension payment whilst CS remains untouched as usual.



nope, just telling it as it is, there are those in the community who can retire at 55 or 60 on more than those who have worked to 65 or more because the former have a gold plated pension that cannot be raided by government, employer or crooks, not hit by vagaries of the money market which they have no control over..



is that an admission that the over paid over pensioned civil service actually did some bean counting and no one listened to them ?? small wonder, when spending £billions on NHS computer systems that don't work, £millions on HMRC taxation systems that don't work, £millions on Immigration systems that lose hundreds of people every year. But as was said to Jim Hacker "Yes Minister" no matter what the question was.
It was private sector IT companies who won the contracts to deliver those systems and then didn't deliver - does that mean their employees don't deserve their pensions?

Public sector workers help to keep private sector companies in business by buying the goods and services they produce, just like everyone else, thus indirectly contributing to the pensions of their employees if they are in company schemes.

Your view on the matter seems to be rather like saying that if your house is burgled and your possessions stolen, everyone else in the street must be burgled too, otherwise it's just sooooo unfair.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 10:30 am
  #187  
 
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
It was private sector IT companies who won the contracts to deliver those systems and then didn't deliver - does that mean their employees don't deserve their pensions?.
who did the project mission statement ? who wrote the tender ? who did the evaluation between the tendering companies ? who decided the best man for the job ? who monitored the project from day one ? who kept asking for more and more things not included in the tender ? who just sat back and said "its public money so thats alright" ?

Probably they would have been just as well asking the man just getting off the bus what he thought about it, or the guy with the penny whistle busking at the entrance to the underground.
The usual way is to promote beyond where they can do any harm (we hope) or send them off on early retirement.

Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
Public sector workers help to keep private sector companies in business by buying the goods and services they produce, just like everyone else, thus indirectly contributing to the pensions of their employees if they are in company schemes.
But at what cost ? Paying over the odds for everything ? Wanting to promote Vanity Projects because it looks good on the CV ! My local council spent £12m of public money reducing a 2 lane road into one lane to give a bus lane. Absolute failure, lasted 2 years and all back to normal. Now 7 years later they are considering it all over again.
without public sector business many companies wouldnt make so much profit, but then I also understand they are some of the worst payers of bills in the country.


Originally Posted by Lynn R View Post
Your view on the matter seems to be rather like saying that if your house is burgled and your possessions stolen, everyone else in the street must be burgled too, otherwise it's just sooooo unfair.
now that sounds like a good idea. the best out of civil servant all week.
its not a question of unfairness it is more a question of why only private pensions can be raided by government, why private pensions cannot be inflation proofed in the same way as public sector. Would be nice if when TUPEing staff that the private sector had to maintain the pension rights of all staff, as happens with the public sector.
but no we couldnt do that, its public money, and thats reserved for the poor civil servants.

get over it, the modern public sector is feather bedded, salaries better than the private sector they try so hard to emulate. when salaries remain stagnant or fall in the public sector they go up. I know many people who would like to have parity with public sector.

but we can't have everything, so back to reading Pepys Diary about all the graft and baksheesh ........
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 10:58 am
  #188  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
but we can't have everything, so back to reading Pepys Diary about all the graft and baksheesh ........
I bet that if you could read the Mesopotamian cuneform tablets from the dawn of civilisation, they'd speak of the same.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:08 pm
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by bil View Post
I bet that if you could read the Mesopotamian cuneform tablets from the dawn of civilisation, they'd speak of the same.
if I could I doubt I would be here


but then considering my deep interest in communications perhaps after I have learnt Spanish I could give it a go, will I live long enough !!
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:52 pm
  #190  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
if I could I doubt I would be here


but then considering my deep interest in communications perhaps after I have learnt Spanish I could give it a go, will I live long enough !!
I seem to remember from an article that some of the earliest Egyptian writings concerning mathematics refer to how the weights and measures used must not be tampered with.

So, nothing changes, eh?
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 6:34 pm
  #191  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
whilst private sector employers are reducing their share and employees are having to double their contributions.
With no guarantee they will actually get a pension at the end of the tunnel.

I don't remember the Govt raiding the public sector pensions like they did the private sector.
I don't remember any public pension having to be supported by the Pension Indemnity Fund.

Yes, ok public employees pay taxes, but ....they don't contribute to the pensions of the private sector.

Now there's an idea, one single pension scheme, for both private and public sector employees, with both govt and private employers funding.
With everyone getting out of it the same as everyone else
So what shall we call it ?
Why not The Retirement Pension ! !! ? ? ?
As far as I know that's what they do in Germany, and they're very good pensions which also include private health care.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 6:44 pm
  #192  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
Much unhappiness has been expressed at the good fortune of those people receiving Winter Fuel Allowance and those in receipt of a public sector pension.

It is, as was said by Fred James "because that's the deal they were on".

Things have changed enormously over the years. What is a desirable job now was undesirable then. We had to tout for staff all-over the Common
wealth countries to allow us to keep the NHS supplied with low cost labour, who were prepared to work in pretty lousy conditions for long hours for little money. Do exactly as they were told or lose their job and thus their right to remain in the country. Bear in mind that many student nurses who started training never qualified and a student nurse earned very little, this was seen as natural wastage. When more nurses were needed the pass mark was lowered and when fewer were required it was raised! No real justice in that as far as the individual was concerned. Some staff were so married to the institution that on retirement they ceased to function themselves and did not draw a full years pension before they died. Now the job is seen as desirable at least from the outsiders point of view, yet why are so many of the staff from overseas? Because in reality it is tough work and not well thought of by the locals! The same is true of the police force. All appear to envy the pay and pension, not so many wished to do the job. So one of the carrots to attract applicants to the more challenging jobs was to offer them a better retirement package than would be available in the private sector. So those of us with that package take it and go. It was the agreement, however now it is being whittled away at by the government.
Too true, I wonder why all these people who resent the public sector pensions didn't becme puplic sector workers? Something to do with the salaries they would have received during their working lives? No private healthcare packages, no company car, no bonuses in the public sector.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 6:50 pm
  #193  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
well that appears to rule out a large swathe of people from the public sector, without the ordinary working man to pay taxes where would your pension be.
whilst you have never contributed to his.

and most civil servants I have met have never been civil, too much up their own a***s to even know the general public are the ones paying for it all
I beg to disagree, all the years I paid NI and taxes I was probably paying for peoples state pension.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 6:54 pm
  #194  
 
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by anna58 View Post
I beg to disagree, all the years I paid NI and taxes I was probably paying for peoples state pension.
whilst I have been paying into your gold plated final salary pension as well as the state pension and my private pension
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 6:58 pm
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by anna58 View Post
Too true, I wonder why all these people who resent the public sector pensions didn't becme puplic sector workers? Something to do with the salaries they would have received during their working lives? No private healthcare packages, no company car, no bonuses in the public sector.
perhaps because it is a private club. When I applied for a job in the NHS I was told I had all the experience and capabilities for the job, just I had no NHS experience and the job was given to someone less competent but with years of working in the NHS

very few public companies pay private healthcare, most company cars are now usually your own private car and claim mileage, bonuses - only go to directors
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