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winter fuel payment

winter fuel payment

Old Oct 23rd 2011, 9:37 am
  #166  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by JLFS View Post
Am I reading that correctly, that they sort of died of a "broken heart".

And of course some people will die withing a year of retiring, from public and private sector, and the really unlucky ones will die before retirement age.

I dont get it, what you are saying,but I think that is what you mean.
That is exactly what is meant. Some people are so tied to their jobs, the job is so central to their existance, that they literally can't live without it.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 10:11 am
  #167  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by jonboy View Post
Much unhappiness has been expressed at the good fortune of those people receiving Winter Fuel Allowance and those in receipt of a public sector pension.

It is, as was said by Fred James "because that's the deal they were on".

Things have changed enormously over the years. What is a desirable job now was undesirable then. We had to tout for staff all-over the Common
wealth countries to allow us to keep the NHS supplied with low cost labour, who were prepared to work in pretty lousy conditions for long hours for little money. Do exactly as they were told or lose their job and thus their right to remain in the country. Bear in mind that many student nurses who started training never qualified and a student nurse earned very little, this was seen as natural wastage. When more nurses were needed the pass mark was lowered and when fewer were required it was raised! No real justice in that as far as the individual was concerned. Some staff were so married to the institution that on retirement they ceased to function themselves and did not draw a full years pension before they died. Now the job is seen as desirable at least from the outsiders point of view, yet why are so many of the staff from overseas? Because in reality it is tough work and not well thought of by the locals! The same is true of the police force. All appear to envy the pay and pension, not so many wished to do the job. So one of the carrots to attract applicants to the more challenging jobs was to offer them a better retirement package than would be available in the private sector. So those of us with that package take it and go. It was the agreement, however now it is being whittled away at by the government.
I would agree that was true of NHS staff but not of Police Officers. They really need to come in line with other pensions.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 12:41 pm
  #168  
 
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by bil View Post
That is simply so true.

Add to that your other excellent point

" We had to tout for staff all-over the Common
wealth countries to allow us to keep the NHS supplied with low cost labour, who were prepared to work in pretty lousy conditions for long hours for little money."

I remember back when the MPs voted that nurses got 6% spread over 3 years, while they voted themselves a 30% increase effective immediately.

As long as we pay nurses a pittance, we will continue to have problems sourcing them.
is the problem sourcing them or retaining them ?

many seem to find it more lucrative to work in the same place as a contract nurse thru an agency and have more control over their hours.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 1:38 pm
  #169  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by bil View Post
That is exactly what is meant. Some people are so tied to their jobs, the job is so central to their existance, that they literally can't live without it.
Well,why would it only affect the public sector as the post implies?
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 3:53 pm
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by bil View Post
That is exactly what is meant. Some people are so tied to their jobs, the job is so central to their existance, that they literally can't live without it.
Originally Posted by JLFS View Post
Well,why would it only affect the public sector as the post implies?
I have known many who reached 65, got the clock for the mantlepiece, and been gone inside 2-3 years. I know it really hurt my dad going to funerals of people younger than him, he always commented on the fact they didnt get anything out of their retirement. Because he had other interests he managed to last 20 years from retirement, not a bad innings me thinks.

The problem is their mind and body clock is set to getting up each morning and going to work - if its not there to go to then the mind and body cannot cope. Remember the stories of people who had been made redundant in the city who travelled in on the train in their suit and bowler to sit and read the paper all day to come back again every evening. In some cases wife didnt even know.

I don't think it is a "sector" thingy, its the person and how they define their position in the organisation and in life in general
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 5:07 pm
  #171  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

This thread seems to have switched from "winter fuel payment" to "pension payments" ...how did that happen
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 6:56 pm
  #172  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Possibly because Winter Fuel Payments are an integral part of the UK state pension.

From a mod's point of view it's difficult to split them out.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 7:36 pm
  #173  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

I remember reading some interesting statistics concerning retirees life spans in selected public service professions, obviously of great interest to the Treasury.

The results were not surprising, although I can't remember the details now, but I recall that firemen and police officers didn't live all that long after retirement and their enhanced pensions wouldn't be much of a burden to the taxpayer.

I do remember that less-stressed civil servants lived much longer in retirement, I suppose it's common sense.

(I suppose we wouldn't be having this discussion now if we lived in prosperous economic times when the private sector's remuneration is again twice as much as the public sector's).
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 8:56 pm
  #174  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Chiclanagir View Post
I would agree that was true of NHS staff but not of Police Officers. They really need to come in line with other pensions.
What's needed with police pensions, is that when they have to pay compensation to the public, it should come out of their pension pot.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 9:00 pm
  #175  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
is the problem sourcing them or retaining them ?

many seem to find it more lucrative to work in the same place as a contract nurse thru an agency and have more control over their hours.
I have no idea. I just get disgusted when those at the top are given shedloads of money to incentivise them, but those at the bottom of the heap are thrown a handful of chicken feed and told to work harder.

When my mother was in hospital after her stroke, I got chatting with one of the nurses, and she told me what she earned. I was horrified. She had to work overtime, saturdays etc just to make ends meet.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 11:21 pm
  #176  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by bil View Post
I have no idea. I just get disgusted when those at the top are given shedloads of money to incentivise them, but those at the bottom of the heap are thrown a handful of chicken feed and told to work harder.

When my mother was in hospital after her stroke, I got chatting with one of the nurses, and she told me what she earned. I was horrified. She had to work overtime, saturdays etc just to make ends meet.
Exactly.
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Old Oct 23rd 2011, 11:44 pm
  #177  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Chiclanagir View Post
Exactly.
and then the idiots who pay nurses a pittance, can't understand why they can't recruit enough nurses...

morons.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:24 am
  #178  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Domino View Post
well that appears to rule out a large swathe of people from the public sector, without the ordinary working man to pay taxes where would your pension be.
whilst you have never contributed to his.

and most civil servants I have met have never been civil, too much up their own a***s to even know the general public are the ones paying for it all
Hi Domino
What makes you think I did not contribute to the "ordinary working" man's pension? I paid my taxes like all others. I also contributed to the scheme I was in for 37 years.

I get the impression that you are unhappy with with your lot and even more unhappy with the lot of anyone who is apparently now paid more than you in retirement? You do seem to project the idea that we were somehow swaddled in cotton wool throughout our working lives and then drowned in money when leaving our jobs?

I just feel you are somehow reflecting your unhappiness on to others.

I certainly feel for those who have been conned by dubious financial advisers, those who have been and are still being misled by politicians who say they never realised that the population of older people would increase so much so soon (thus they have to make cuts) as the government has always had a small army of statisticians to feed them figures yet chose to ignore them as it was never expedient to address the looming problem

Best regards

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Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:42 am
  #179  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by JLFS View Post
Am I reading that correctly, that they sort of died of a "broken heart".

And of course some people will die withing a year of retiring, from public and private sector, and the really unlucky ones will die before retirement age.

I dont get it, what you are saying,but I think that is what you mean.
Not so much dying of a "broken heart" as not having a life out side of the institution. They were wedded to the institution, as in the sense of a co-dependant relationship. When the job ended they had to leave the nurses home and live alone for the first time in 40 years. They had not married as the hospital was all consuming. They had always felt they were irreplaceable and then, were to all intents and purposes rendered redundant. They then had little to sustain them. This is not so much the case today where it is considered that having an off duty life is "normal".

Many people in all walks of life find the process of retirement not just a happy and gainful experience but also one of loss and uncertainty.
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Old Oct 24th 2011, 12:51 am
  #180  
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Default Re: winter fuel payment

Originally Posted by Lionda View Post
This thread seems to have switched from "winter fuel payment" to "pension payments" ...how did that happen
The two are linked as some feel they are both handed out to the undeserving!
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