Where do we go from here?
Oct 22nd 2009, 11:06 am
#136
Not Banned (yet)
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Madrid
Posts: 6,400
Re: Where do we go from here?
Well I'm happy here too, but...
I believe the Painters like many never really came looking for advice, but were part of the growing trend of people with a severe case of cognitive dissonance looking for reassurance. When we didn't reinforce their decisions, it generated the irrational anger and denial we all saw. Natural behavioral responses I might add!
The question is should we change our behavior just because it's "nicer" not to tell the truth or should we tell the truth warts and all and risk being alienated by the OP and others on here. Spain is a big country, we all have very different experiences, and we're all different people. It's taken me three years to feel like I "fit in" here, and part of that was overcoming the positive delusions about Spain and learning about the reality. In my experience (wait: just popping on my flame-proof trousers) you either come out the other side with a balanced view or become incredibly negative, eventually returning 'home'.
Please don't shoot... I'm 25% American!
I believe the Painters like many never really came looking for advice, but were part of the growing trend of people with a severe case of cognitive dissonance looking for reassurance. When we didn't reinforce their decisions, it generated the irrational anger and denial we all saw. Natural behavioral responses I might add!
The question is should we change our behavior just because it's "nicer" not to tell the truth or should we tell the truth warts and all and risk being alienated by the OP and others on here. Spain is a big country, we all have very different experiences, and we're all different people. It's taken me three years to feel like I "fit in" here, and part of that was overcoming the positive delusions about Spain and learning about the reality. In my experience (wait: just popping on my flame-proof trousers) you either come out the other side with a balanced view or become incredibly negative, eventually returning 'home'.
Please don't shoot... I'm 25% American!
Oct 22nd 2009, 11:20 am
#137
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,101
Re: Where do we go from here?
Part of the problem I think is that a lot of people don't know how to present the negatives in an impartial, neutral tone, and it comes out as judgemental, critical and condescending. I'm not surprised that advice seekers get their backs up on a regular basis.
Oct 22nd 2009, 11:27 am
#138
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: Where do we go from here?
Here are thousands of ‘Painter’ families knocking at Spain’s door every week, a million are already here. Some don’t make it and head back home, mostly people who are unprepared in some way or other.
I would argue that the ones who don’t make it, wouldn’t make it anywhere in Spain, it’s not the place that’s wrong, it’s them, although moving makes sense if a place really doesn’t suit, but you should know that beforehand.
That’s where forums are useful, the majority of expats living here are helpful people towards others following in their footsteps, why shouldn’t they be? It’s human nature to help your neighbour.
And it doesn’t take much to filter out the negative comments, as Chulo said, just look back over a few of their posts, it’s difficult to conceal your true nature for too long. This thread is a prime example of just that, and I haven’t checked back, I haven’t got the heart for it.
And they won’t shoot you for telling the truth, Carter, but they might for that 25%. Only joking, I don’t know how to put a smilie in place, so just imagine there’s one there.
I would argue that the ones who don’t make it, wouldn’t make it anywhere in Spain, it’s not the place that’s wrong, it’s them, although moving makes sense if a place really doesn’t suit, but you should know that beforehand.
That’s where forums are useful, the majority of expats living here are helpful people towards others following in their footsteps, why shouldn’t they be? It’s human nature to help your neighbour.
And it doesn’t take much to filter out the negative comments, as Chulo said, just look back over a few of their posts, it’s difficult to conceal your true nature for too long. This thread is a prime example of just that, and I haven’t checked back, I haven’t got the heart for it.
And they won’t shoot you for telling the truth, Carter, but they might for that 25%. Only joking, I don’t know how to put a smilie in place, so just imagine there’s one there.
Oct 22nd 2009, 11:50 am
#139
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Posts: 20,156
Re: Where do we go from here?
Part of the problem I think is that a lot of people don't know how to acknowledge the negatives in an impartial, neutral tone, and it comes out as judgemental, critical and condescending. I'm not surprised that advice givers get their backs up on a regular basis.
Last edited by jdr; Oct 22nd 2009 at 11:53 am.
Oct 22nd 2009, 12:10 pm
#140
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2008
Location: Hérault (34)
Posts: 8,899
Re: Where do we go from here?
Interesting that this thread has been resuscitated...
A lot of the questions that Señora in particular raised before leaving the UK (e.g. transport of plants, teddy bears, acquiring The Times, keeping donkeys/goats), rather than finding out where their house was located and how their daughter was going to get to school and have a social life, caused a reaction from some expats (me included) who put their priorities in a different order. The bad-tempered reaction of both Señor and Señora made for a controversial thread...
Hopefully the daughter is settling down well, wherever the family is now living, but I imagine there won't be any feedback from the OP...
A lot of the questions that Señora in particular raised before leaving the UK (e.g. transport of plants, teddy bears, acquiring The Times, keeping donkeys/goats), rather than finding out where their house was located and how their daughter was going to get to school and have a social life, caused a reaction from some expats (me included) who put their priorities in a different order. The bad-tempered reaction of both Señor and Señora made for a controversial thread...
Hopefully the daughter is settling down well, wherever the family is now living
, but I imagine there won't be any feedback from the OP...
Oct 22nd 2009, 12:32 pm
#141
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Posts: 20,156
Re: Where do we go from here?
You seem to be a prime example of not being able to acknowledge the negatives in a neutral tone, and it comes out as judgemental, critical and condescending. (your own words)
Oct 22nd 2009, 12:34 pm
#142
Banned
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 699
Re: Where do we go from here?
I don`t believe everybody is 100% happy or unhappy no matter what the location.
Moods change from minute to minute.
I was happy until I opened the Mail today (I no there on strike, but it arrived) and now I wished I hadn`t and would really like to vent some anger towards a certain organisation.
It would be great if a place did make me happy 100%, I`d also like to be Richard Branson.
I`m happy to settle for a 50-50 emotional relationship.
Moods change from minute to minute.
I was happy until I opened the Mail today (I no there on strike, but it arrived) and now I wished I hadn`t and would really like to vent some anger towards a certain organisation.
It would be great if a place did make me happy 100%, I`d also like to be Richard Branson.
I`m happy to settle for a 50-50 emotional relationship.
Oct 22nd 2009, 12:37 pm
#143
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: near Colmenar, Prov de Malaga
Posts: 5,174
Re: Where do we go from here?
I'll say this with some trepidation, to those that know who they are and those a bit p'd off with those that know who they area (and in fact anyone else, actually
... oh, and also hoping I'm not one of them
)) My mum used to say - still does, actually, knocking on 93 but mums are always mums - it's not what you say but the way in which you say it.
Some stuff is valid, but put rather bluntly. Some stuff is blunt but put nicely. Depends which you opt for. We all post on here, clearly - and apart from a very few actual trolls, which I'm only now beginning to possibly recognise, usually far later than anyone else, I believe most of us, possibly all in their own way, try to answer queries to the best of our ability. Sure there are sometimes bits of banter, or sarcasm, wouldn't there be in any conversation? But for myself I feel if we are here we (a) should accept that by posting we may get replies we don't like and (b) should write our posts as if we were face to face with the person/people we're addressing. That way we can't so easily hide behind the shelter of the pixels.
End of attempted mediation! Deposits olive branches for future use, scuttles off stage left.....................
... oh, and also hoping I'm not one of them)) My mum used to say - still does, actually, knocking on 93 but mums are always mums - it's not what you say but the way in which you say it. Some stuff is valid, but put rather bluntly. Some stuff is blunt but put nicely. Depends which you opt for. We all post on here, clearly - and apart from a very few actual trolls, which I'm only now beginning to possibly recognise, usually far later than anyone else, I believe most of us, possibly all in their own way, try to answer queries to the best of our ability. Sure there are sometimes bits of banter, or sarcasm, wouldn't there be in any conversation? But for myself I feel if we are here we (a) should accept that by posting we may get replies we don't like and (b) should write our posts as if we were face to face with the person/people we're addressing. That way we can't so easily hide behind the shelter of the pixels.
End of attempted mediation! Deposits olive branches for future use, scuttles off stage left.....................
Oct 22nd 2009, 12:46 pm
#144
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,101
Re: Where do we go from here?
My point is that whatever I post, and wherever I post it I always know that if I come back a few minutes later there will be a post from you contradicting what I have just said (and sure enough, this thread was no exception). I don't follow you around the forum pouncing on your every post and I would appreciate it if you could do the same.
Oct 22nd 2009, 1:46 pm
#145
RETIRED ;-))
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Benalmadena Pueblo,Spain
Posts: 20,156
Re: Where do we go from here?
JDR, I never ask for advice from this forum (apart from trivial matters like what to plant in my garden, or where to get rid of second hand stuff). So I don't know how I am a prime example of not being able to accept negative advice if I never ask for it!!
My point is that whatever I post, and wherever I post it I always know that if I come back a few minutes later there will be a post from you contradicting what I have just said (and sure enough, this thread was no exception). I don't follow you around the forum pouncing on your every post and I would appreciate it if you could do the same.
My point is that whatever I post, and wherever I post it I always know that if I come back a few minutes later there will be a post from you contradicting what I have just said (and sure enough, this thread was no exception). I don't follow you around the forum pouncing on your every post and I would appreciate it if you could do the same.
Maybe it`s just a coincidence on timing that you are in front of me
You have always had a strange attitude to me since your thread about how easy it was getting business loans in Spain.
If you read back through your posts you will probable find as many of your replies or maybe more are negative answers to my posts than I have given to yours.
Anyhow back to topic....
If you post on a forum you have to learn to extract what you need from the advice and forget the rest.
Oct 22nd 2009, 4:46 pm
#146
Forum Regular
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: Alacant
Posts: 170
Re: Where do we go from here?
)Contrast here. I like this forum - it's lively (and certainly the busiest Spanish forum that I've come across). Okay, there are others, but people here are from the real world not just estate agents or conveyancing lawyers.
I don't think much gets said here that couldn't be said face to face. Yes we all lack intonation and body language, and we probably all say a bit more than we should but that's just nature of the medium.
Compared to that link this morning, this place is a convent!
Oct 22nd 2009, 7:48 pm
#147
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: May 2009
Location: Alicante province
Posts: 5,753
Re: Where do we go from here?
I think it was HBG who posted a link to another forum this morning which I think put everything into perspective. Pages upon pages of mindless swearing and insults about the procreation habits of each other's immediate family members, all caused by someone asking a question about living in a certain town! (and no I'm not mentioning which one )
Contrast here. I like this forum - it's lively (and certainly the busiest Spanish forum that I've come across). Okay, there are others, but people here are from the real world not just estate agents or conveyancing lawyers.
I don't think much gets said here that couldn't be said face to face. Yes we all lack intonation and body language, and we probably all say a bit more than we should but that's just nature of the medium.
Compared to that link this morning, this place is a convent!
)Contrast here. I like this forum - it's lively (and certainly the busiest Spanish forum that I've come across). Okay, there are others, but people here are from the real world not just estate agents or conveyancing lawyers.
I don't think much gets said here that couldn't be said face to face. Yes we all lack intonation and body language, and we probably all say a bit more than we should but that's just nature of the medium.
Compared to that link this morning, this place is a convent!
That silly link that I posted this morning is Trainspotting for the Costa Blanca, apart from making me laugh, and it did, it explains the reality, somewhat.
It doesn’t do any harm to occasionally be reminded that there are snakes in the undergrowth, and their bites can be venomous.
Oct 23rd 2009, 5:30 am
#148
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: near Colmenar, Prov de Malaga
Posts: 5,174
Re: Where do we go from here?
I suppose we all go through life, and if we’re lucky enough, it’s all sweetness and light, but then along comes a novel like Trainspotting by Irvine Welsh. It sells millions of copies because us gentle folk like to occasionally read about the dark side, the one that we don’t know about because we’re cushioned by life, probably because of parents, and our own endeavours.
That silly link that I posted this morning is Trainspotting for the Costa Blanca, apart from making me laugh, and it did, it explains the reality, somewhat.
It doesn’t do any harm to occasionally be reminded that there are snakes in the undergrowth, and their bites can be venomous.
That silly link that I posted this morning is Trainspotting for the Costa Blanca, apart from making me laugh, and it did, it explains the reality, somewhat.
It doesn’t do any harm to occasionally be reminded that there are snakes in the undergrowth, and their bites can be venomous.
Oct 23rd 2009, 9:20 am
#149
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Where do we go from here?
I know people criticise BE from time to time, but I can tell you there are some horrible forums out there where spam rules OK and you get flamed for next to nothing.
We dont tend to sink to the levels of criticising other forums by name on here though as a general rule.
We dont tend to sink to the levels of criticising other forums by name on here though as a general rule.
Oct 23rd 2009, 11:21 am
#150
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2008
Location: near Colmenar, Prov de Malaga
Posts: 5,174
Re: Where do we go from here?
I know people criticise BE from time to time, but I can tell you there are some horrible forums out there where spam rules OK and you get flamed for next to nothing.
We dont tend to sink to the levels of criticising other forums by name on here though as a general rule.
We dont tend to sink to the levels of criticising other forums by name on here though as a general rule.
