Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Ignoring the possible double-entendre, I will say that it is interesting at election time when the parties are canvassing.:) Especially as my home Constituency has just gone from a marginal Labour to a marginal Conservative. They all bend over backwards to secure my vote!:rofl:

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

As I say, you are much prized (there actually was no double entendre meant) by politicians, right up to the moment that the polls close, and then you go back to being as worthless as the rest of us.

I see you still vote. I gave up on the day I realised that it did no good. I was watching a labour and a tory debating, and I realised that while A was saying yes, and B was saying no, this was because A was in power, and had B been in power then B would have been saying Yes and A no.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Name me one single right that you possess that you don't owe to those donkeys.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Y'know Dick, I'm sure the donkey jibe got a good laugh.

The fact is that every movement has those who betray the basic idea, either for personal gain or personal power. However, that doesn't tarnish the good idea at the heart of it.

The idea of socialism to me, is the movement of society towards a fairer, more just society. Where you can have both the concept that one who invests his money, or his time, or whatever should benefit from that, but at the same time, those who have nothing, or who work at the bottom of the pile should also be treated fairly and justly.

Now by that I do not mean that we go by the rule of the right, whereby to be poor is a crime, and the penalty is to be exploited ruthlessly.

Every single right that you possess has been dragged out of the right (by that I mean the unholy trinity of State, Crown and church) by the people you call donkeys. Were it not for them, you would be an ignorant peon, chained to the land, and bound by law to serve your betters, to harvest the squire's land before you were allowed to touch yours.

What was it you would be expected to say?

"God bless the Squire and his relations, and keep us in our proper stations."

As always, one law for the poor, and none for the rich to worry about.

Personally, I think you owe the 'Donkeys' a sincere apology.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

presumably there is\was a quid pro quo.

how can you have a "democratic election" when the leaders of the unions (how many - 12 or so?) can use a block vote of millions to get the one they want.
that isn't the democracy these over paid, over dressed union leaders insist is the right of the working (wo)man. Being driven in chauffered cars, living in large houses owned by the union, living off expenses. Obviously they have learnt a lot from the bosses who have been grinding down the working (wo)man into the ground for all those centuries.

Maggie proved they werent really wanted and were bloodsuckers out for their own glorification. Their insistance on closing down Leyland is typical. When their membership fell due to layoffs they only wanted to keep those who had jobs and could pay their dues every week\month. They missed the fact that all those ex-union members never came back when they got a new job. They missed a trick in not keeping the memberships open until times got better.

nowadays the only area where the unions have some muscle is within the public sector.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Maggie, like most of her right wing friends, wasn't interested in reforming the unions, she wanted them destroyed.

The idea of a union is to protect the working man and give him real muscle to balance the power of the bosses.

Can't have that, it leads to all sorts of nasty things like workers having the right to a decent wage, or the right to a safe working environment. I remember tales from my family during the depression where you were effectively fighting for a job with sh'it money, you wouldn't dare complain at the conditions, or ask for a safe environment.

Yeah, who wants a union? Nasty things, unless of course you have real understanding of what it means to be at the bottom of the heap.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

bil, pse stop preaching to the converted, I was brought up living and breathing the unions.
it was only many years later when the idiots from the union came out to the De Haviland plant for a meeting "under the tree" my father started to realise that working to rule or withdrawing labour was the one thing the bosses wanted as they didnt have any work for a large workforce. Much better to let them get their 2/- from the union than their pockets. Dad said the unions were never there when there was plenty of work and a waste of space.
And that is a man who I thought would be buried with UNION moulded into him like a piece of Blackpool rock.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

An idea yes, but unfortunately as with Socialism a well worn out idea thats long outlived it's usefulness and is simply used as a means to an end for those who wish to take advantage of the fact that there are those fool enough to keep following them, simply because its virtually ingrained into their brain from birth to do so.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

As I say, just because the concept of a union is right and proper, it doesn't make every union member a saint. You and I both know full well that turds as well as cream rise to the top, and some of the union leaders have been bigger bastards and more exploitative of the workers than the bosses.

Trouble is, that is used as a stick by the right to beat the unions wih in the hope of destroying them entirely. They have no intention or desire to see reform, because a reformed and just union system would force them to treat their workers justly.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Why Dick, I had absolutely no idea that all the labour problems had been solved in a just and fair way! Why haven't I hear the bells chiming out to ring in the good news?

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Well, here in Spain, the PSOE isn't socialist - it's opportunist. Socialism here is with Izquierda Unida, which has the virtue - at least - of being thought of as honest.
The PP, you get what you expect (short of the odd minister with ideas), but the PSOE is always fiddling, interfering and screwing the society is purports to represent. In all senses. Which is why Seville remains stalwartly PSOE, it's got it too good.
In Spain, there are two strands to the PSOE: the Champagne Socialists who have made it good, by Gum (they usually drive Beemers), and the rest who want a taste.
During the Civil War, Pepe la Sopa attended a meeting in our local theatre. When it was his turn to speak, he climbed onto the stage and said 'Brothers, everything belongs to us now, there are no more owners'. Somebody from the back shouted: 'and what about your farm, Pepe?'
'I'll shoot the first bastard who comes on my property', answered Pepe.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

I will always vote. I was brought up that way. I consider it my duty. And, if it does not sound too heavy, people have died for the right for me to do so.

I vote in Spain (locals) and in the UK (Parliamentary and European, registered as non-resident voter), but of course will be UK resident again soon, so will not be able to vote in Spain.

I agree though, it is often a challenge to decide which is the best of a bad bunch. I wish there was a 'none of the above' box I could tick!

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

They get in by big promises, but when I looked at the electoral process of Unite where I paid some subs for a while, it seemed to me to be blatantly one horse race, even down to the regional elections. In one instance there was a dirty tricks campaign to ensure on individual got in.
No matter how often they start with high ideals they soon drop down to the level of every other "leader".

I would assume the unions are not shouting too loudly about their success on behalf of the tube drivers in London - a £52k salary. A slap in the face with a wet fish for the majority of workers on NMW.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

well when you go into that little booth you could always add it in on the form.
your vote would be invalidated, counting as "spoiled", but would at least give you some satisfaction.
:)

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Yes I agree, but can't bring myself to not have my vote count, so I would like an 'official' box.:)