Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

[QUOTE=Dick Dasterdly;9719100Just for once mention situations where industrial relations are good, where bosses appreciate their workers and reward them adequately and where workers appreciate the benefits of working for a good company.[/QUOTE]

I am an ex shop steward that worked for quite a good company who transferred my work to India but this in turn allowed me to be made redundant and retire at 59. Saying that it did not help the younger guys very much.
You asked about the good companies anyone had worked for and my experience goes back to the seventies, I worked at a company that made amongst other things parts for fighter planes, rockets etc, the Americans were not allowed to supply Europe at that time so they took over our company to gain a foothold. All that we worried about seemed to be coming true when the first edict was no union, they would not recognise them so naturally we were worried, should not have been though, they were the most enlightened management I have ever worked under. They were amazed at the lack of facilities for the workforce,(by GB standards we did not think that they were too bad), and set about ripping the place to pieces, new canteen facilities, new toilets with showers, new lounge equipment then a meeting of all the staff and we were asked to vote for a works committee, only stipulation was that it had to be replaced on a yearly basis. Salary reviews were strange, we were asked to provide an accountant, (paid for by the company), to go through the books, our accountant plus the committee and management then decided what percentage increase was applicable for the next year. It worked well, you can believe it or not but our salaries increased in the five years that I was there by just over 110%. I started work there on a normal salary for my job and when I left I was on so much money that finding a replacement was rather easy.
I have never since heard of this type of management´s methods but they certainly worked, they probably had the most committed workforce in Sheffield.

Graham

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

When everything is hunky dory, no-one needs unions. It's a bit like when dealing with honest men, no-one needs a lawyer.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Do tell. Since the unions are so necessary, so incompetant and useless, what do you suggest we replace them with, so those at the bottom of the heap will get a fair crack of the whip?

Weather? It varies. Here it's been pretty good, thanks. Sorry about that.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

I don't suggest anything or claim to have any magic answer, no more than anyone else.
The basic fact of life is, as always has been, and likely always will be, that there will always be those at the bottom of the heap and those at the top.
There are lots of suggestions from do gooders about how the perfect world of equality should be, but in practice we all know well enough that they simply don't work and are never likely too.
I have already explained the reasons why todays unions are about as much use as a chocolate teapot regarding helping those who need it most, so I'll rest my case and wait for you to come up with the miracle solution.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Actually, that rather nicely describes things. A chocolate teapot is a fun and delicious gift, a bit like a novelty easter egg. Of course, were one to use it for things that it is not originally designed for, the results will be less than satisfactory.

Looking for a magic solution, a perfect answer, is the wrong thing to do. Scrapping the unions is the wrong thing to do. The unions do good work all the time, protecting workers from unfair dismissal.

I remember when I was working on the motorways for a couple of years after quitting Uni. They were wanting to lay off people as the winter approached, and they picked on me and another student. They claimed we had left the site witout authorisation for the day (we had been working on the edge of the site after being told to work there by the foreman.) and we were told we were sacked. So we went to the union rep with our case, he got the foreman to admit we were where we were told to be, and we didn't get sacked.

This sort of problem will exist as long as there are workers and employers, so how can you say there is no need for unions? In fact, I'll leave you with your own words, above in red, which illustrate perfectly why unions are needed.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

If only union leaders spent more time and effort doing the job for which they were elected and helping out those in most need rather than concentrating on playing politics and feathering their own nests, then maybe I'd have a bit more time for them.

Anyways I'm betting a pound to a penny that there was a good boozer close to the edge of that building site. :sneaky: :rofl:

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Sadly, no, there wasn't. In the top paragraph, simply shange the words 'union leaders' to politicians, whatever, and it works just as well.

My fear is this. I agree that the unions fall short of what they ought to do, but as I say, it's better to repair the boat than scrap it and then start looking for a new one, because as I suspect, were we to scrap the unions, I'm thinking there would be a lot of vested interests making sure we never got a replacement.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

The problem is papers such as the daily wail who will always pick up on the odd problem that occurs in any organisation but ignores the tens of thousands of people at the bottom who are the real upholders of the unions. If you do not know the good that they do then you have very little knowledge of todays unions and the way that they work WITH staff and management. Much of what has been written on this thread is outdated rubbish.

Graham

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Or as Lord Alan Sugar calls it "The Daily Liar".

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Graham, let's face it. There are plenty of people who want to see the unions discredited for their own ends. They are more than happy to swallow the sh'ite the DM prints.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

You present a very bullheaded,biased and blinkered view of todays world of industrial relations.

Your abject failure to acknowledge the true overall picture and instead continue to rant on with your simplistic black and white, them and us attitude, is symptomatic of the main causes of much unnecessary conflict, with unions hellbent on pointless strikes and disruption which could well be avoided with a little decency, basic common sense and diplomacy.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Pot and kettle, old son, pot and kettle.

Let's see. I agree the unions are broke, but I advocate repair, not scrapping.

I certainly don't think, and I'm sure I have never said that I supported strikes at times like this, except in dire need. I have always said that there should be balance between unions and bosses, because basically a strike means that everyone loses. I say that the Unions used their power unwisely in the past , but that it should be balanced against the abuse of workers by management prior to then.

I don't like the Mail and find the guardian more honest.

You seem to take your views straight from the DM, with all that that entails.

I'm not sure to whom your rather foolish rant should be directed, but how in god's name do you think it should be me?

Ithink, that if asked there's a lot of people would say that your rants like this are the simplistic, black and white ones.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

I have never bought a DM in my life nor read a DM other than snippets that crop up on the net or forums such as this.
In fact I don't buy or read any papers, possibly the only exception in the past ten years was when I bought a final copy of the NotW for posterity and charity.
I hoped it might be something special well worth keeping. It was in the bin two hours later.
My views are entirely my own having had a good view of proceedings from both sides of the fence over many years.
I notice you have at least slightly relinquished your hard line no compromise stance, so maybe there is still hope for you yet, but I must confess it is still like pulling teeth trying to get thru to you.

Anyway I wonder if you watched last nights debate, after all that is what this thread is supposed to be all about, ..innit ?:unsure:

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

Oh do grow up. This coming from you who derided all those who have tried to make the world a fairer place as donkeys, who derided the guardian as a rag because it dared to print a truth that you didn't like.

For a non DM reader, you sound like one. Ducks, feathers, quacking et al.

Me, I still hold the identical views that I always have, that there should be blalnce, and a fair deal all round. I do realise that for you of course that counts as hard line communism.

Do get real.

Re: When PP win the election, what will change?
 

That sort of post hardly justifies a reply bil, let alone a serious one, so I'll simply refer you to my last one on the "Don't think I the only one thread." ;)
Don't sound right do it. :confused:
Anyway I've got a nice cosy bed to go to even if you haven't.
Night night, sleep tight, hope the mossies dont bite, though come to think of it this cold weather seems to have polished them all off around here. ;)