glad to hear it

Yes, Spain isn't as far forward as other countries - not just the UK - but of course their own concern is for their people, those from other countries are just that. Something I have some sympathy with.

I have noticed a few homes for "Major's" when moving around the Granada Area. There is what I believe is a relatively new one just off the A44 at/near to Alhendin.

Perhaps with the funding that is now being made available through Central and Regional Govt the Local Govt's are in a position to provide some funding.
I am sure there are a few Spaniards with large houses that could be relatively easily be converted. I know a couple to the north of Granada, one of which is on a bus route.

Now what a change round if we got someone on BES who wanted to start such a business instead of opening a bar.

So we seem to be talking about “going home to die”. It is not as if the uk has any better solution to the issue than any other country may have. Death does seem to be the final taboo, the one least planned for. Has anyone been to the “Ideal Death Show” or “Our Death in the Sun” at Olympia, recently?
The problem with ill health in another country is communicating our needs and if we suffer from any memory problems, then the language that we learned after our mother tongue will be the first to desert us!

Care of the dying is a controversial subject as you will see when reading about the “Liverpool Care Pathway”. Quite how we care for others in their later life and how we are cared for ourselves seems to be to some extent, luck. If we make plans now then we may stand a better chance of having so called good luck. If we have not even managed to make a will up to now then we is up the swanee!
I sort of like the idea of striking first and arranging an assisted death for myself but because I am curious I would probably leave it too late. Life is a series of events of loss and finally we lose our lives on this earth. Any one want to buy into a religion

I'm a pretty much fluent Spanish speaker - at last! Yet, if I'm in a room full of Spanish speakers & one person on the other side of the room is speaking English my ears will tune in to them - it's only natural! (if rather annoying )

so... maybe my Spanish will desert me at the end - maybe not - but I'm HOME


and staying here - no matter what

I am unable to understand the phrase ' interesting social experiment' in the context of my post about the UK care my Dad received.

Do you make reference to the Mental Health Act ? Services cannot compel a person against their wishes unless the Mental Health act is evoked or family members have Guardianship . It is the same here in NZ.

My Dad was totally compos mentis, even in his agony.

I agree Jonboy. The concern for those living in countries where English is not first language will be in properly communicating your wishes. It is hard enough as it is.

My Dad suggested assisted death . I would have helped out of love. It was simply too late.

Obviously I am very far away from the UK being in New Zealand but thoughts do turn to 'home'. Here in New Zealand, assisted retirement villages are very popular. You can buy a home on such a village from the age of 50.

We were not blessed with children so in the past couple of years my thoughts have turned towards our adage. I am not sure what the right answer will be for us yet. It may be a UK return. It may an NZ retirement village. It may be a devil may care , by a bus and travel the world and hope for the best.

It's not just about a place that won't discriminate against them it's as much a place that suits their interests.

It maybe something I investigate further I'm not sure at the moment.

Bev I have sat here and re-read my posts and yours and cannot see why you take that line, especially as to the MHA which didn't appear anywhere.

The "interesting social experiment" comment is based on the "let us send everyone home that asks for it" attitude of the SS - even when (as in my dad's case) they can't even get out of bed let alone walk to a toilet.
These people have degrees in this and that and are well paid. They shouldn't be treating our loved one's as an "experiment" to see if it works or not.
The simple fact was that he was not physically capable and she didn't have the mental capability of talking to him and making him understand. Probably "wasn't her job"

I know we all want to have the final decision as to how we meet our maker and where. Actually very few achieve either.
All we can do is the best we can and try to make things the best we can for the loved one's we leave behind.

If a person has their mental faculties and want to go home (possibly to die there, in the place they have been happy with their wife) there is absolutely nothing Social Services can do to stop it.

However, if you were there and were the next of kin you should have been more assertive and spoke up for him, even with 'all their degrees' (which you clearly denigrate) and your contemptuous expression of 'an interesting social experiment' - no it's the law actually, if you genuinely think it is the wrong thing a social worker, nurse, sister etc will take on board the next of kins wishes.

If you genuinely thought he needed a few more days in hospital you should have stood your ground and sorted it.

My dear Dad has a tolerance level for hospital, he goes in and for the first 2 days he gets better, as he us put on a drip by day 4 he starts going down hill again.

He and I have a little joke, that it's the devils own job to get in hospital, but when you are a noctaganarian it's even harder to get out again, they are frightened to discharge him incase something happens and they are to blame

And just to note for those going on about how the UK family has disintegrated, Norman Tebbit blah blah blah ........, sorry but there has always been good supportive families and bad for decades, it's not new.

Even those of us who have a complicated life part here part there can still manage to do what is needed, when there's a will (and love) there's a way, especially when you are any only child.

Care in the UK is about £13.95 an hour via care agency's that are local authority inspected and regulated, but subsided dependant on means testing.

If you are assessed as needing more than four hours a day, that's your lot and you have to go in a residential or nursing home.

No assets the LA pays, assets you pay, until they are used then the LA takes over payment.

You are not left to rot on the street, as some surmises, it's all laid down by regulation.

I guess this is the lot of the expat, that he/she finds themselves far from the one who is loved and now needs help, yet wishes for the services local to their loved one to provide the very care that the expat cannot. Well it will not be as good, nor will it be as timely, nor will it be as personal. This is the sad thing.

When it is the expat's turn to need care then it is likely that the same rules will apply also.

I am sure that all sensible and caring people would agree with the bulk of your post.

However, just a couple of points that are no more than feelings.
1. For a long time I've thought that the degree driven culture of the NHS and Social Services has had a negative effect on 'care' in the true sense of the word. The NHS in particular used to be an organisation more synonymous with dedication than qualification (doctors excepted).
2. Caring families? Again sadly I think that over a generation, things have slowly changed. I mentioned in an earlier post that hand on heart, I'm not sure that the care we extended to my parents would necessarily be replicated to the same extent. 'Busier lives' seems to be an acceptable excuse these days.

When planning for later life, I admire one of the American models which exists in a community in Florida, namely "The Villages". It has thousands of what we may call "bungalows" and they have many social/sports facilities. More important is that they also have different levels of care, from totally independent to pretty much entirely dependant. The draw back my friends is that it all costs a pretty penny!

The future of old age care may be closer to home. Our big super-markets may well provide your end of life care, Liddle or M&S it's your call. Let's face it they are doing just about everything else already.

Try this as a taster to what you may be offered. Have you been on a cruise of late, well how about spending your final years on an end of life cruise? A different port each day and an ever changing view from your cabin window. Your own cabin steward and all services provided in house, Chiropody, Psychology, Dentistry. All the advantages of a cruise-line, plus duty free alcohol and at the very end, an environmentally friendly departure from this life. Yes, you heard it here first in BritishExpats.com!

There may be a degree driven culture in the NHS, but I can assure you that a lot if the real carers i.e. The care workers that go into the home for an hourly rate are 'degree free' as I have employed a few over the last decade for my (sadly) late) Mum and my dear Dad.

Regarding the family unit and it's ability and willingness to care for loved ones it's can be a complex issue. My children see what I have done for my parents however I have no expectation that they will do the same for us. The important thing is to talk about these things.

My Mum looked after her Mum the three brothers did nothing.

Families are complex, I have a friend who was sexually abused by her father as a child despite this she has tried to have some kind of adult relationship with him, now she's in her 50ties and he his 80ties but she will not become his carer and wipe his incontinent bottom, it is a reach too far for her. No doubt people who didn't know the background might judge.

Often people only know half or a quarter of the story.

People are very happy to criticise the family unit particularly those looking back at the UK from Southern Europe, but there are actually people who still look out for family and do their best. People will now have to work to 67 if they are lucky enough to have a job that long. It will be hard to be a carer on top of that at that age when your own health can be failing.

How often do you hear 'I'm moving to Spain because it's so much more family orientated' ?

I say to them 'so basically you want to be more family orientated by coming here but are emigrating and leaving all but your immediate family? Now there is an oxymoron if ever there was one.

Most can't even see the irony at the point of departure, many come back because they miss family and close friends.

That is precisely why my husband and I took the decision that I went home for an indeterminate period. A sister lived not far but she was not prepared to give the personal care.

It is a very hard balance. To aid the services so you get the best help possible for your loved one but to also ensure your loved one feels heard so their dignity remains. To ignore or force someone into something they really do not wish is to accord them no value .

I think I am with you jonboy on the degree driven NHS. Care comes from within. It should not be perfunctory.

Yes Jennie. Many of the care force are ont he front line. They don't need silly training courses to tell them what they are already doing for real.

I know a lovely lady back in the UK . Her job is called organisational development within an NHS. It appears she trains /tells assorted care services how to work/communicate with each other. OTs, District nurses etc. Total and utter waste of money IMO. She has never been on the front line with those people. Has no knowledge of being a carer herself. In fact, nothing but her degree.

Hi Moses I will think of you when I go to Church upon my return to France. Here I am presuming you are comparing Health care in Spain with the UK.

You are in praise of the Spanish system. I am not in that last year when staying in Spain we suffered or should I say my wife did in that she has had Rheumatoid Arthritis for almost 40 years. Spain denied her injections due to 'cash' problems in Valencia Health. We moved back to France.

I commend the French Health system to you and it is superior both to the UK and Spain. Streets ahead. Approaching some 70 years of age I have considerable experiences of both the UK and France but my time in Spain was limited but the experience of going to that Health place near the open air market in Javea is not to be recommended.

Then the Rheumatologist in Denia hospital who was superb left allegedly because he was prescribing the only drug now available to stop RA in its tracks. Problem the cash that it cost.

These types are here in NZ which is more USA than UK in many things. Still Water.

For you Spain for others different pays. I know my preferred place in a corner of a foreign field and it is not Spain. I thought of somewhere overlooking the Menai Straights and with Snowdon in the background. And a last meal of mussels from the straights and then Welsh Black beef in the Bulls Head Hotel in Beaumaris. However I have forgotten Evesham asparagus (not the white stuff please)the early pots from Noirmoutier in France and then damsons from Baughton near Upon on Severn in Worcestershire. And if you are lucky the last of the season Salmon from Nigel Mott on the banks of the Severn at Stroat in Gloucestershire and whose family has been fishing there for generations.

Of course the day before to fall asleep for good in a deckchair watching cricket at New Road in Worcester.

All of this as a Welsh guy from the valleys.