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Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Dxf
(Post 11296128)
Hola
English is the official second language of Europe so many Spanish can speak English. It may be an official language in Brussels at the European parliament, but not in Spain |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Neptuno
(Post 11296213)
Some people have been found in a dire situation out here. ill, doubly incontinent,immobile with perhaps an equally frail spouse. They may not have anyone in UK and even if they did they cannot give up their jobs to care for them;Will the Spanish health authority take them under their wing? Social care is available, but first someone must know how to access it, and of course speak Spanish. It's more likely they will be left, possibly in Squalor, until a charity hears about them. These charities do marvellous work, but cannot be expected to take on long term care, especially if there are no funds. Will they then be put in a Spanish residential home filled with residents and carers who they don't understand, and who don't understand them?
The alternative, in UK may not be ideal but it's a damn sight better than what they would face here! Search "Georgia's story" on Murcia Today for a salutary lesson on what may go wrong if you leave it too long! TOO many people think it can't happen to them. Good post, good advice. I have been here long enough to have known quite well many who realized when it was the best thing to do, having previously enjoyed long contented periods in Spain, .... though I also knew one or two unfortunate ones who didn't make the right decision in time and they and their families suffered the consequences. It may be true that facilities are getting stretched in the UK, but just lately down here some are deteriorating at an alarming rate, mainly due to the seriousness of the crisis. |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Neptuno
(Post 11296213)
Some people have been found in a dire situation out here. ill, doubly incontinent,immobile with perhaps an equally frail spouse. They may not have anyone in UK and even if they did they cannot give up their jobs to care for them;Will the Spanish health authority take them under their wing? Social care is available, but first someone must know how to access it, and of course speak Spanish. It's more likely they will be left, possibly in Squalor, until a charity hears about them. These charities do marvellous work, but cannot be expected to take on long term care, especially if there are no funds. Will they then be put in a Spanish residential home filled with residents and carers who they don't understand, and who don't understand them?
The alternative, in UK may not be ideal but it's a damn sight better than what they would face here! Search "Georgia's story" on Murcia Today for a salutary lesson on what may go wrong if you leave it too long! TOO many people think it can't happen to them. |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Moses2013
(Post 11296244)
If there is no care for him in Spain, they'll just send him to the UK, so he's in the exact same position.
He will rot alone in his home unless he gets help from volunteers His daughter should be ashamed. She is complicit in the maltreatment and possible death of her own father |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by cricketman
(Post 11296347)
Who will send him to the UK? The Spanish government won't
He will rot alone in his home unless he gets help from volunteers His daughter should be ashamed. She is complicit in the maltreatment and possible death of her own father |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Moses2013
(Post 11296366)
All that was said is that the daughter didn't come over at the time it happened. The Spanish government will also send someone to his home and he'll have to pay for care from his savings. When the savings are gone, the daughter will have to pay and if she can't, they'll take his apartment.
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Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by lynnxa
(Post 11296402)
just like the UK then
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Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Moses2013
(Post 11296366)
All that was said is that the daughter didn't come over at the time it happened. The Spanish government will also send someone to his home and he'll have to pay for care from his savings. When the savings are gone, the daughter will have to pay and if she can't, they'll take his apartment.
The Spanish system is very different, nobody from the government agencies will visit the sick expat and as Cricketman said, 'he will be left to rot . . .' |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Moses 2013 I'm afraid that you haven't got this right at all. The help available in Spain is minimal - not like the UK at all - I know this for a fact.
I know people in the situation that they have become ill, been 'fixed up' in hospital and sent home completely unable to fend for themselves. If it wasn't for the help of acquaintances raising money for their care and indeed providing care themselves they would likely starve and die in squalor. It's not 'the same back home'. Nothing like it. |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by jimenato
(Post 11296551)
Moses 2013 I'm afraid that you haven't got this right at all. The help available in Spain is minimal - not like the UK at all - I know this for a fact.
I know people in the situation that they have become ill, been 'fixed up' in hospital and sent home completely unable to fend for themselves. If it wasn't for the help of acquaintances raising money for their care and indeed providing care themselves they would likely starve and die in squalor. It's not 'the same back home'. Nothing like it. |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by mfh
(Post 11296595)
I think here in Madrid there is some sort of help given to old people I see a lot of very old people being helped by south americans mainly and the people they are helping certainly don't look rich to hire them but... I'm not sure cos its just based on observation I'll ask at the town hall the next time I have to prove I'm alive :-)
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Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by HBG
(Post 11295915)
I've come across yet another example of expats leaving the time of leaving to go home until it's too late. The great majority of us eventually do return home even after many years of living in a foreign country.
That's what happened to this gentleman after many years in Spain. He's a widower and was healthy and fit until a fall late last year. He has just been recently released from a Spanish hospital after a hip and knee replacement. His married daughter in England couldn't come over to help because of her own family problems. The expat had been lifted out of his bed and placed on a chair when a doctor told him his treatment was over and he had to go home. The patient doesn't speak Spanish and didn't know what was happening to him. He was wheeled into the corridor where a kindly nurse called the local expat HELP organisation who sent someone to take him home. He was taken to his first floor apartment but needed to be carried up the steps to it. The expat couldn't do anything for himself, not even visit the toilet. The volunteers knew that the Spanish social system couldn't help, they are not just geared up for it and the helper coming to wipe a patient's bum will only speak Spanish. The point of this post is: do not leave it too late before making yourself as safe as possible when living in a foreign country, and learn the language as best you can. This situation happened to my father a few years ago. Although he had a ground floor elderly/disabled place to go back to, he had been admitted to local hospital because he couldn't do things for himself and had 2 falls inside 24hrs and was admitted for observation. The very kind Social Services lady said that he should be released to his own home as that was his wish. My sister and I pleaded that he was on his own, he had fallen again in hospital trying to get to the toilet, and he didn't have the strength in arms or legs to get himself out of bed. But she is part of the SS and knew better than us - insisting it was his wish that HAD to be obeyed. So he was sent home and during the night fell trying to get out of bed, couldn't reach an emergency pull so lay there until my sister phoned him the following morning to see if he was alright. Her calls got me there just after his GP who called an ambulance for immediate hospitalisation. When he arrived the lovely lady from the SS was not in the building and we never did manage to find her. Father died of multiple organ failure from Cancer a couple of weeks later. And that was in Hertfordshire, only 20 miles outside London. So Spain is not the only place where these things happen. |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 11296815)
Very sad tale, this is one of the reasons why the BH and I gave up on "the dream" of our own place away from it all, with a bit of self sufficiency thrown in.
This situation happened to my father a few years ago. Although he had a ground floor elderly/disabled place to go back to, he had been admitted to local hospital because he couldn't do things for himself and had 2 falls inside 24hrs and was admitted for observation. The very kind Social Services lady said that he should be released to his own home as that was his wish. My sister and I pleaded that he was on his own, he had fallen again in hospital trying to get to the toilet, and he didn't have the strength in arms or legs to get himself out of bed. But she is part of the SS and knew better than us - insisting it was his wish that HAD to be obeyed. So he was sent home and during the night fell trying to get out of bed, couldn't reach an emergency pull so lay there until my sister phoned him the following morning to see if he was alright. Her calls got me there just after his GP who called an ambulance for immediate hospitalisation. When he arrived the lovely lady from the SS was not in the building and we never did manage to find her. Father died of multiple organ failure from Cancer a couple of weeks later. And that was in Hertfordshire, only 20 miles outside London. So Spain is not the only place where these things happen. |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by jonboy
(Post 11296961)
I wonder what the alternative would have been, to deny your father his wish to return home and keep him in hospital and have him die in a strange environment among people he had no connection with or to take the risk that he may fall again and accept his wishes and return him to his home as asked? Whichever course was decided upon I guess it would have been controversial in retrospect. The least we can do is to respect the individuals wish.
:( Yes, he would have preferred to have died at home, but his family weren't prepared to have him suffer and the medical people felt the same way. Where he died wasn't where he wanted, but then as mother had died at home 20 years before that place wasn't available to him as he had moved twice since then. This is something that everyone should face as they get to retirement age. As the sun comes up in the morning and sets at night - it will happen to you. And you may have to make an emergency compromise as to time and place. Just be grateful that it wasn't earlier - when our mother died of cancer it was having at least seen and held her first grandchild, but she never got a chance to know her nor to even meet the 3 that came later. Make the most of it while you can. :fingerscrossed: |
Re: When it's time to go home.
Originally Posted by Domino
(Post 11296815)
The very kind Social Services lady said that he should be released to his own home as that was his wish. If they are of their own mind then their wishes cannot be over-ridden and ignored, no matter what. The person cannot be compelled. It is the same vice versa of course. If the person really , desperately needs hospital attention and even if an ambulance is called or a doctor makes those calls , if the person states they will not go, then they do not go. One small interesting thing from my own experience. If the person require a saline drip just to help ease some difficulties , then that can only be done in hospital. No go to hospital, then continue to suffer. Having written that, at the final time, all the services did the best they as my Dad slowly died in his own home. I was given good support and so was he. Without them it would have been a far worse hell than it was |
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