What will the future hold?
 

Several regions of Spain are teetering on the precipice of financial catastrophe....I think the opportunity to ‘Take the bull by the horns’ may have passed for the government to take the road to salvation, (Though a difficult road it may be ), down the exit route from the EU.....The more Merkle and her vacuous cronies delve their tentacles into the Med nations through deepening the fiscal debt....The closer to a European federation dictated to by an elitist few we become.....With the planned cuts biting hard and further and deeper ones planned, it will not be long before social unrest and upheaval inevitably happens on a scale which may lead to huge changes in this country...



The leaders of this nation have lost the way of truth,
Like an aged wounded beast searching for its youth,
They lurch, they lean and blunder thier way blind,
To what, to where, not seeming to even mind.

What will be the outcome, of this sad reproachful waste,
A future of reflection and a bad and bitter taste,
Of what, and could, and might have been conceived,
If right and good and truth had been achieved.

:frown:

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Any evidence for this?

I find the Spanish media to be remarkably placid about what is happening - and although the 15-M movement have said a lot of good things, they have petered out and it hasnt lead to anything important. The politicians only ever say that they want to continue in Europe and with the Euro

Up here, day-to-day I see things just going on as normal. Loads of people in the cafes, shops busy etc. Not as busy as 5 years ago, but still

All we are seeing is a correction in the availability of credit, so properties are becoming cheaper, those companies on the brink are going bust while utilities and fuel are becoming more expensive because the world's major currencies are being deliverately devalued by the banks and governments

I dont see a revolution happening soon

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Very interesting article here, on how the German state of Hesse is seeking up to 400,000 unemployed Spanish to work in Germany. Trouble is, they need to know German... (the German state of Hesse includes expensive places like Frankfurt, which is presumably why they can't attract German unemployed to relocate there).

http://www.elconfidencial.com/espana...aleman-104500/

Now of course there won't be anything like 400,000 go. But Spanish workers will have to be more flexible, and go where the work is. If Inditex needs shop supervisors to re-locate to China, or if the Rail company needs technicians to work in Istanbul or Israel, then people will have to re-locate.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

WILL ???
surely the option to say NO is still there at the moment ??

and what if Germans want/need those jobs in the future ??
.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

I don't see it either.

Peaceful demonstrations may come and go, but as soon as anyone as much as bats an eyelid or even gives a copper a black look, they know they can expect to get the shit beaten out of them PDQ.

Truly amazing just what a calming influence such tactics have.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

None of this prevents numpties (oh so full of apologies after the event, when it looks like they will get prison) from throwing a fire extinguisher from the roof of a building.

And where were the police when the same numpty peed up the side of the Cenotaph and climbed up it ??

hitting them isnt the answer, taking their personal belongings and smashing and burning them in front of their friends - now thats a good idea.
:thumbsup:

Re: What will the future hold?
 

I'm actually pro violent revolution (as a concept), sometimes it is needed and is the only way a change can be made. History shows this

Charging students £10k a year to go to university is a valid reason to smash up the HQ of the Tory party

And maybe if a few bankers had hung from lamposts a few years ago then things may have worked out for the better

Even the great social advances of the C20th only came about because of the two WWs.

The US are very good at maintaining a passive population. There is nothing better for a politician or banker, it means they dont notice who is stealing from them, or even better, dont care

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Will Ibiza continue to part fools from their money?

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...323239634.html

Re: What will the future hold?
 

What they dont mention is that actually tourism from non-Spaniards is up 6% across the whole of Spain. There have never been as many tourists in Spain

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Me neither

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Do you think there should be any charge to go to Uni.?

Re: What will the future hold?
 

OK, no problem
so when a student gets hung from a lamp post for getting in my way when travelling home its ok - cman said so.

charging for education is no problem - if I want to take a CPD course I have to pay for it, if universities weren't so lax it would be possible to complete many degrees inside 18months, instead of 3 years pissing up in the uni bar.
Education is wasted on the young.

disagreement, demonstration, fine
violence breeds violence, not fine
it reaches a point that if "students" start violent opposition then the authorities will respond to all opposition with violence, even if it is different "students", peaceful or not...

perhaps I should pull out my class notes when i did an anti-terrorist demonstration course, but will need a 0.303 to achieve the required result.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

I tend to agree with you Beast.

Sticking with the Euro and handing over control to an unelected bunch in Brussels means years of pain for Spain. Well into the 2020's. I am afraid as yet the ordinary man in the street hasn't felt the real pain yet. As such they haven't thought too hard about revolting.

As to bail outs. Spain was apparently too big to bail out. Now it appears it isn't with a bit of creativity. Merkel is just kicking the tin along until she is re elected. Have you seen any EU countries that have been bailed out and the populace are happy? far better in my view to default, start with a clean slate and re introduce the peseta. Sure their would be hefty devaluation. Spain could easily up tourism by 50% with some simple measures

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Personally, no. Education should be available to all - and tertiary education to all who are capable

I am also against the stupid courses they have in the UK. Half of them are not of any worth. If people want to pay to do media studies or golf course management then sure, a private university can host those courses

But the "proper" uni courses should be freely available. After all, the whole of society benefits from a Dr, engineer or scientist

If more tax is needed then up the tax of higher salaries. Since most of the best paid people are graduates anyway then this seems fair

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Yes I agree the useless courses should subsidise the valued ones. I would add theological studies and all the bible backed ones!

Re: What will the future hold?
 

what would get spain back up and on it feet again ....

The Facts
Spain has one free think ... it called the "SUN" ... dosent cost any think ,it there 8 -10 hours aday , 300 - 365 days ayear

We need two get back the tourists

You could have hotels and apartments full with people if thay drop there hight prices ,
keep price down and people will come ... its a facted Makes Economic Sense

less foreign tourists than the same month in the previous year july 2012 via airport stats of most major spanish airports

Spanish Tourism Industry Prepares for Difficult Summer
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...374441994.html

the Spanish Tourism dept would want get off the Ass and work two bring people back two spain , get tv ads up and running again ,
get hotels and apartments to drop pricing ...

people are now pissed getting ripped off and look for vale in the Euro r Pound

In 2007, Spain became the second most visited country of the world after France. That year, almost 60 million foreign tourists were received, according to the World Tourism Organization . we not droped two 4th in the list 2010 Spain ($53 billion) income now this is only about 35billion

that one big drop ....

Re: What will the future hold?
 

isnt that an about face ? one minute you say its ok to have violent demonstration but then say it isnt acceptable to respond/retaliate.
makes you sound like a student

I believe children should receive free the best of education possible to enable them to make their way in the world. However, repeating, that uni is for many a big piss up for 3 years, when the course could be completed inside 18 months if they just worked at it. So lets give it to them for free - inside 18 months, or pay if 3 years.

As to my being uneducated - well you can sling mud if you think it will stick, but I have paid for a lot of my education, I have never got less that 85% on any exam since I left school, usually it is in the mid 90's.

And no I didnt make it up
:rofl:

Re: What will the future hold?
 

I would add all non-vocational subjects. Public money should only pay for those who are going to be of benefit to the public.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

What do you classify as a vocational subject?

Traditionally all classical degrees are non-vocational. Oxford and Cambridge are the best unis in the country and they dont have any vocational subjects (possibly law, but that only becomes vocactional post-grad). However, they churn out the majority of our business leaders, politicians, bankers, lawyers, scientists etc

You need to become educated before then applying your knowledge, otherwise you are just a trained monkey.

It is the cr*ppy degrees that are actually vocational. Media studies and golf course management are very vocational!

I guess I can add universities as another thing that people on this forum dont know very much about ;)

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Spain has been effectively "bailed out" since the day it joined the EU, it's been the largest recipient of EU hand outs for years. EU money paid for airports that have never seen a plane, roads going nowhere, failed fanciful vanity products all over the country, it short the money was simply squandered. Well the wheels have well and truly come off the gravy train, Spain will have to start paying it's way, but instead it's still holding it's greedy little hand out asking for more. Much more!

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Which is exactly what is happening - you start to pay for your education when your salary reaches a certain level.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

There is only 1 airport that has not seen a plane - the one in Castellon

Was that funded by EU funds? I'm pretty sure it wasnt, it was funded by a massive bank loan to the local government and the crooked Carlos Fabra. Similar to the notorious Lleida and Ciudad Real airports, they got their money from the Cajas, but it was leveraged against Spanish tax payers money

Spain is having trouble because it cannot refinance their debt, nothing to do with EU grants

If they could get loans at the same rate as the UK or Germany then Spain would be in a very healthy position reguarding its finances

Re: What will the future hold?
 

now if I didn't know better that is an elitist statement

Re: What will the future hold?
 

It was a Socialist Government that withdrew free University!

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Sorry, but you have been misinformed!

Spain only received 0.04% of its GDP, the lowest of any of the net recipients (i.e. countries which take out more than they put in) and was the fourth biggest contributor in 2007.

EU budget

Re: What will the future hold?
 

I don't think so, you're talking about now, I'm talking about about a few years ago, hence that's why I said it now has to start paying it's way, although it will still be a net recipient. (unlike UK which has only ever ever been a net contributor) It doesn't actually lose that until 2013. Whichever way you look at it, Spain has had billions and mostly wasted it.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

You might be surprised by what forum members know about universities. I don't want to start a north/south war, but Sheffield university isn't a real one and never was one, and I believe that's where you got the degree you crow about at every opportunity.

You might fool a Spanish employer with a degree from Sheffield, but in the south of England they would laugh at you.

Lighten up a bit, you're lucky to be employed at all in Spain.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

A lot of Southerners go to Sheffield University. Doesn't sound too bad according to Wikki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Sheffield

Re: What will the future hold?
 

I think you will find that there are a number of degree awarding institutions in Sheffield. The Victorian university in Sheffield is a member of the Russell group which includes a number of Northern Universities and also London University colleges plus Bristol and others about 30 in total and they are regarded as the best unis in UK outside Oxbridge and Durham.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

[QUOTE=jackytoo;10255566]A lot of Southerners go to Sheffield University. Doesn't sound too bad according to Wikki

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Sheffield[/QUO

I know that, Jackie, but the poster needs to be corrected occasionally when he gets out of hand. If he had any sense he would get his family out of Spain as soon as he possible, and Sheffield wouldn't be a bad place to go back to.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

What does 'as a concept' mean'? A good idea until it's your property defaced, damaged, destroyed or a friend or family member injured or killed I guess?
Students are not 'charged' 10K. It's nothing up-front and the only paid back years and years later. Might stop media studies, beauty therapy and all the other crap courses.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

How pro-violent would you be if a member of your family was caught up in a nasty violent incident albeit as an innocent bystander? Would you say; ahh never mind they have a right to violently protest or would you be pretty annoyed at the anarchisitc mob that killed/maimed your loved one? Violence does not respect or recognize boundaries and rarely discriminates.
Your remark is ill considered.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

[QUOTE=HBG;10255750]Has Spain hit an iceberg? Things may be bad but I don' think we all have to run for the lifeboats.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Yeah, university is the answer.... what the question is, now thats another thing.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

[QUOTE=HBG;10255750]Sheffield is a very good university. 5 nobel prize winners came from the department I studied in, that was good enough to convince me. All my employers tend to agree, most the people I work with were Oxbridge educated.

As for getting out of Spain :rofl: We've never been happier, especially since we've moved to Asturias. We have no reason to go back, and as long as our work continues to hold up, we never will

Re: What will the future hold?
 

But Spain is also one of the biggest contributors, and has been since at least 2007. Since then it has just about broken even.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...tics#EU_budget

The UK gets two-thirds of its contribution back, so that isn't really comparable!

This money was never a charity handout. Its main purpose was to improve the infrastructure in less developed countries so that the more affluent countries could benefit. For example French and German factories set up plants in parts of Spain where the labour is cheap, and needed good transport links. Increased prosperity also enlarges the market for goods produced in the affluent countries.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Yes, a nice ultruistic idea of supporting less well off countries and helping them to climb up to the status of the richer countries.
So what went wrong with Greece - just living off someone else's fatted pig.
And considering the historical preference for the short stubby plantins why oh why did they open an office in Barbados to give grants to the long bent bannanas that were supposedly banned because they were not straight.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...a-growers.html

Perhaps they thought they were setting up an office in Granada, but someone in Brussels typed in Grenada and was too frightened to admit their mistake.

And all by an organisation that hasn't had its accounts approved for 14 years.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

It's immaterial really what you contribute, it's difference between that and what you get back that is important. People here tell us Spain is the equal of UK, many will tell us it's superior in every way, some that business is booming, so it begs the question why Spain has always been a net recipient and UK a net contributor. I think it was last year the UK's annual contribution went up over 70%, it's costs UK £53 million a day, it's taking the orina. As for the enlarging the market of the affluent countries (whoever they are) the UK runs a huge trading deficit with the EU, our increasing markets are outside of the EU.

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Well, I guess there are lots of historical reasons. I would never say that Spain is the equal of the UK. Spain started from a much lower economic base after WW2, it didn't get Marshall Plan money from the US like the rest of Europe, its development was held back in many ways by the dictatorship. But there were parts of the UK that did receive a lot of EU investment, like the Northeast - same thing happened, multinational car plants relocated there and they became more prosperous.

Is the reason why the UK's net contribution went up suddenly because the rebate it got for not getting CAP money went down, from two-thirds to less than 40%?

If it was really not in the UK's interests economically to be in the EU then surely the Tories and big business would be unanimous in wanting to pull out, but they aren't, are they? :unsure: They must be getting something out of it?

Re: What will the future hold?
 

Sheffield University is top rate, ranked 8th in the Complete University Guide. Are you thinking of Sheffield Hallam University, formerly Sheffield Poly? But there's not much wrong with that either - it's 49th out of 119 in the guide.