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Well done Gordon

Well done Gordon

Old Jul 20th 2011, 11:12 am
  #46  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by The Oddities
I have to agree with you and I believe that the OU was pushed through by the then education minister I think Jenny Lee against massive opposition.
Graham
I see. So Wilson gets the blame for the problems, but no credit for the successes?

Graham old son, you can only have it one way. Either he gets the credit/blame for everything or for nothing.

Me, I look at it like this. Under each and every PM we have had a mix of good and bad. Don't sweat the small stuff, because that comes and goes, whether good or bad. The real question of a PM's rule is the mark they leave on the country. All the small stuff fades, but the OU remains as a truly great achievement.

Harold Wilson died with empty pockets and a truly great memorial.

Once more, who else who has sat in the PM's chair, has done anything to equal that?
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 11:19 am
  #47  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Public opinion kept us out of Vietnam, plus the fact that neither party had any stomach for getting involved.

Wilsons years were a total waste.
He never ever faced up to or solved a single problem.
Everything was swept under the carpet and eventually came to a head to bite Callaghan on the ass.
Dick, you seem mad keen to ensure that the man gets no credit. As far as I can tell, if he benefited from his position, it can't have been much as he died with empty pockets, and his wife was so impoverished that John Major set up a fund to help her.

He kept us out of Vietnam under immense pressure. Compare that to Blair.

Again, you can't have it both ways. A PM is either to be credited with all the bad or good that happens on his watch, or nothing.

You simply can't play the political game of blaming Wilson for the bad and ignoring the good by the simple technique of crediting it to someone else, any more than you can credit him for the good, and ignore the bad.

You can tho point out that the effects of a PM's rule (good or bad) tend to fade, like ripples on a pond, and have little effect on the present.

The OU tho still stands as a great achievement.

So tell me, which other prime minister died with empty pockets, and left a legacy that has endured half so well, and benefited so many people?
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 3:55 pm
  #48  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

A lot of fine words bil, but absolutely no proof that he ever achieved anything.
You mention opposition to his Vietnam policy, yet there was virtually no opposition within the UK, which is all that mattered to him to ensure he stayed in office and what in any event was the easiest and popular route.

Had he been dumb enough to go in I believe there would have been a far greater furore than that over the Iraq job, and in any event he was well aware that he couldn't even have got it past parliament, so your claim has absolutely no validity at all.

The only other thing you can come up with was the OU which as I understand it was not originally his idea and in any event he had others much brighter than himself doing the donkeywork and once again it was a simple straight forward no brainer with virtually everyone in favour and no opposition, so where's the big deal ?

As I said the Wilson years were completely wasted years when the UK should have been making sound economic progress instead of sliding backwards to the point where he had to devalue the pound,..... oh and then to try to tell us all that it wasn't worth any less.
Talk about taking the p!ss.
He may have hoodwinked the UK voters for many years, but to lower himself to trying that one on, was an insult to ppls intelligence as well as a clear indication that he was never the sharpest pencil in the box.

Little doubt when he retired he must at least have been aware of the huge pile of poo he left waiting on the doorstep of no 10 to greet Callaghan.
Poor Jim never had the faintest hope in hell of wading through that lot.

So you lose sleep because he supposedly died penniless.
Maybe it was rough justice for the financial damage he did to the country.
In any event he got the pay and pension for the job which was far better than what most ppl were getting and if he didn't make further provisions or wasn't bright enough to run his personal affairs better then......
1, It was tough cheese for which I will lose no sleep.
2, It was probably yet another clear indication of his ineptitude and uselessness as a PM in charge of the UK economy.

For complete and total utter ineptitude he even gave Gordon a run for his money, and for that point alone I am more than happy to give the guy the full credit he truly deserves.

I was always absolutely amazed how a guy of such limited intellectual ability ever made it to PM, though at the end of the day it has to be said that probably his only real forte was his almost endless ability to con Joe Public.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 4:15 pm
  #49  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
A lot of fine words bil, but absolutely no proof that he ever achieved anything.
You mention opposition to his Vietnam policy, yet there was virtually no opposition within the UK, which is all that mattered to him to ensure he stayed in office and what in any event was the easiest and popular route.

Had he been dumb enough to go in I believe there would have been a far greater furore than that over the Iraq job, and in any event he was well aware that he couldn't even have got it past parliament, so your claim has absolutely no validity at all.

The only other thing you can come up with was the OU which as I understand it was not originally his idea and in any event he had others much brighter than himself doing the donkeywork and once again it was a simple straight forward no brainer with virtually everyone in favour and no opposition, so where's the big deal ?

As I said the Wilson years were completely wasted years when the UK should have been making sound economic progress instead of sliding backwards to the point where he had to devalue the pound,..... oh and then to try to tell us all that it wasn't worth any less.
Talk about taking the p!ss.
He may have hoodwinked the UK voters for many years, but to lower himself to trying that one on, was an insult to ppls intelligence as well as a clear indication that he was never the sharpest pencil in the box.

Little doubt when he retired he must at least have been aware of the huge pile of poo he left waiting on the doorstep of no 10 to greet Callaghan.
Poor Jim never had the faintest hope in hell of wading through that lot.

So you lose sleep because he supposedly died penniless.
Maybe it was rough justice for the financial damage he did to the country.
In any event he got the pay and pension for the job which was far better than what most ppl were getting and if he didn't make further provisions or wasn't bright enough to run his personal affairs better then......
1, It was tough cheese for which I will lose no sleep.
2, It was probably yet another clear indication of his ineptitude and uselessness as a PM in charge of the UK economy.

For complete and total utter ineptitude he even gave Gordon a run for his money, and for that point alone I am more than happy to give the guy the full credit he truly deserves.

I was always absolutely amazed how a guy of such limited intellectual ability ever made it to PM, though at the end of the day it has to be said that probably his only real forte was his almost endless ability to con Joe Public.
I've read some of the shit he had to put up in office. The yanks were putting a lot of pressure on him to go into vietnam, and he had to tread a fine line between putting them off, but not so much that they started demanding repayment on what we owed them.

I personally think you are hell bent on painting him black, so anything achieved under his period as PM is credited to anyone but him, and all the shite is heaped on his shoulders.

I doubt I'm the only to see that as anything other than one sided argueing, which does make me think you are a tad biased here.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 4:22 pm
  #50  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by bil
Could be, could be.
Remember him smiling? It's the sort of image you frighten children with.
Don't know about kids terrified me more of a lear than a smile

As for Harold Wilson when i was a kid we lived near his constituency in a then pit village our next door neighbours were big labour people and involved in the local labour party, my mother was originally from Northern Ireland of Orange stock. At the election our neighbours made a big point of arranging for my mother and a couple of other people to be collected to vote in Harolds personal big car. My mother took great delight in taking the lift and voting conservative
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 4:37 pm
  #51  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by bobd22
Don't know about kids terrified me more of a lear than a smile

As for Harold Wilson when i was a kid we lived near his constituency in a then pit village our next door neighbours were big labour people and involved in the local labour party, my mother was originally from Northern Ireland of Orange stock. At the election our neighbours made a big point of arranging for my mother and a couple of other people to be collected to vote in Harolds personal big car. My mother took great delight in taking the lift and voting conservative
My mother was High Tory too. Always gobbing on about how much better things were thru tory tax cuts, if the sun shone it was because Maggie had bent over etc etc etc.

I once sat her down with a pen and paper and showed her that she personally was a lot worse off under the tories, and she went a bit quiet after that...
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 4:51 pm
  #52  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Wasn't there rumour that he was a KGB agent. There was some mention of him on history channel that said all his friends were involved in dirty land transactions.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 4:58 pm
  #53  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by bil
I've read some of the shit he had to put up in office. The yanks were putting a lot of pressure on him to go into vietnam, and he had to tread a fine line between putting them off, but not so much that they started demanding repayment on what we owed them.

I personally think you are hell bent on painting him black, so anything achieved under his period as PM is credited to anyone but him, and all the shite is heaped on his shoulders.

I doubt I'm the only to see that as anything other than one sided argueing, which does make me think you are a tad biased here.
As I've already pointed out he couldn't have taken us into vietnam even had he wanted too.
Also, the yanks did not govern our country,... except when Blair was in office of course.
Not sure what sort of books you read to believe that rubbish, but I'm willing to bet they came under a red cover.
His positive achievements could be written on the back of a postage stamp.
The heap of sh!te he left behind would rival mount everest.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:03 pm
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by bil
I once sat her down with a pen and paper and showed her that she personally was a lot worse off under the tories, and she went a bit quiet after that...
Statistics statistics ........, I bet you could even have given Wilson a run for his money.

Hope you didn't conveniently forget to explain to her the one about the pound in her pocket.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:04 pm
  #55  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by bil
My mother was High Tory too. Always gobbing on about how much better things were thru tory tax cuts, if the sun shone it was because Maggie had bent over etc etc etc.

I once sat her down with a pen and paper and showed her that she personally was a lot worse off under the tories, and she went a bit quiet after that...
Bil I'm surprised you didn't realise long ago it's no use pointing out facts to tribalists, like our friend Dick. No matter how many examples you give of leaders like Maggie, John, Tony and now Dave (in Libya) commiting us to war, he will always argue that Wilson deserves no credit for avoiding Vietnham.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:29 pm
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe
Bil I'm surprised you didn't realise long ago it's no use pointing out facts to tribalists, like our friend Dick. No matter how many examples you give of leaders like Maggie, John, Tony and now Dave (in Libya) commiting us to war, he will always argue that Wilson deserves no credit for avoiding Vietnham.
Try reading my posts stevie then please explain to me how Wilson could have got us into vietnam even had he wanted too.

Maybe time to remove your own blinkers methinks.

Oh and still waiting for this list of Wilsons fantastic achievements.
As I said on the back of a postage stamp will do nicely I think.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:38 pm
  #57  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Try reading my posts stevie then please explain to me how Wilson could have got us into vietnam even had he wanted too.

Maybe time to remove your own blinkers methinks.

Oh and still waiting for this list of Wilsons fantastic achievements.
As I said on the back of a postage stamp will do nicely I think.
But Wilson had no achievements. Only DD approved PMs have achievements, and of course, DD approved PMs never did anything wrong.

As Steviedeluxe says, your tribalism is showing rather badly methinks.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:40 pm
  #58  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by Dick Dasterdly
Statistics statistics ........, I bet you could even have given Wilson a run for his money.

Hope you didn't conveniently forget to explain to her the one about the pound in her pocket.
No dear. I merely pointed out two FACTS.

1. She didn't earn enough to pay tax, so she got no benefit from tax cuts.

2. She had to pay for things that she previously got for free.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:41 pm
  #59  
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Originally Posted by jackytoo
Wasn't there rumour that he was a KGB agent. There was some mention of him on history channel that said all his friends were involved in dirty land transactions.
The slagging off and lies said about Wilson were legion.

There was a very interesting article I read once that said there was actually a plot organised by the right wing to organise a political coup against the elected government under Wilson.
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Old Jul 20th 2011, 5:44 pm
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Default Re: Well done Gordon

Dick are you Maggie in disguise?
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