Sherlock Holmes

True.

johnnyone

I think Blair entered politics for the right reasons, unfortunately power corrupts.
I never could bring myself to vote for him although a labour supporter at that time.

bil

Dick, as you know, I'm no financial expert. It has always been my understanding that the shit we find ourselves in is down almost singlehandedly to the idiot yaks flogging subprime mortages (I prefer the term NINJA mortgage. No Income, No Job or Assets) To assess just how stupid this was, I would ask you the following question.

Would you lend anything to someone who was a NINJA?

Why not?

The other stupid thing which laid up open to the yank's folly was the fact that the Tories started to deregulate the banks etc, and when Labour got in, they took it further.

Both parties at the time that they did those things, were warned, over and over again that it laid us as a country open to risk.

Finally, where do you think we would be if the tories had been in power during the Gordon Brown years. Better off or worse?

I like neither, but the idea that the tories would have been more cautious than GB is to me delusional.

In picking out GB for censure, you effectively are giving the Tories a clean sheet.

They are all scum, and should be treated as such.

bil

Blair. Don't even get me started.

Dick Dasterdly

For all their faults the Tories have generally been better at running the economy whereas the Socialists never seemed to have the faintest clue.

No, I do not think the Tories would have allowed us to be dragged down to the present depths of despair.

I think this is easily demonstrated by their drastic and unpopular efforts to improve the current situation, which they must surely realize is political suicide as far as the voters are concerned and will leave them with not the faintest prayer of getting back into office at the next election, or possibly for many more to come.

What Brown has done is negligence beyond belief and so bad it almost appears wilful.
It makes my blood boil even more than the expenses row and the present fiasco.

Had the Ruskies sent in a team of under cover saboteur politicians to destroy the UK economy, they surely couldn't have done any more damage than Brown.

I note that he's now virtually an outcast within his own party, anyone with any political ambition at all treats him like a leper.

bil

Worse that the expenses fiddling? I think that puts them one step below the idle shiftless who suck of the state's tit. No, two steps. It puts them one step below the shiftless that falsely claim benefit, because they are not in a position of trust. Don't let's forget that both GB and Cameron paid back cash tooty sweety, - a clear admission of guilt if ever I saw one.

s for the tories being better. Lemmee see. Who was it that started deregulating the banks? Hmmmmm...why, it was the Tories!

Which was the party that warned against this? Was it the tories? No. Was it Labour? No. I think you'll find it was the Liberals.

Finally, which party was it ****ed us over BIG time by jacking the mortgage rate up 50% IN A SINGLE DAY?

I think you'll find it was your little tory friends again.

Don't tell me they are better disposed to the man in the street, because the doctor has told me that if I laugh that hard I will split a rib.

bobd22

I'm with Dick re the last labour government, my self I think Blair acheived his aim or his wifes aim got even wealthier got out at the right time leaving Gordon to flounder and sink. No I can't see how nyone can stick up for them when they go out of office having deliberately signed up to impossible agreements with Europe etc and are so arrogant that they leave a note saying theres no money left. I do agree that the Tories started the de regulation etc which was a mistake. However they are trying to do something not sure it is or will work but time will tell on that. I think they have to start showing something soon or has as been said they are finished at the next election. Question then is who can replace them?

bil

The point I was making was that had the tories been in power when GB was in, what would they have done re regulating the banks. My suspicion is that they would have gone further than GB did, which would have made things even worse.

Blair. That little slimeball was so far up Bush's arse that he could see daylight. I don't have words to adequately describe the self serving little shit.

Dick Dasterdly

http://www.debtbombshell.com/britain...et-deficit.htm

Labour inherited a budget that was in balance back in 97 since when they have thrown money away like confetti or like some dumb kid turned loose with a credit card for the first time.
The country is now in debt to the tune of around a trillion quid.
Thats around sixty thousand for every single family.
We can barely pay the interest on that let alone clear the debt.

Labour began borrowing like crazy even through the good times before the present crisis ever began, though what benefit we have seen from it I haven't a clue.

We can all quite rightfully harp on about the expenses scandal and numerous other fiddles for which the taxpayers footed the bill, but they are small fry and insignificant compared to the pile of poo that Brown and co have dropped us into.

bobd22

Maybe the Tories would maybe they wouldn't that is something we can't say. What we can say is that labour and Gordon particular as in office throughout whole time made an absolute mess of things. Thing is it is the the working public paying the price as well as the poor sods that have lost their jobs as a result of this mess,also those in retirement that saved for it. Not the ones that have never or ever intended to work because they are amongst the ones that did benefit from Blair and Brown.

Domino

I for one would be quite happy for them to have their fiddled expenses if it meant we didn't have to put up with the broken country we are now.
This is like the money we borrowed from the GDY's to pay for our fight against fascism - our grandchildren will still be paying for the mess Bliar and Blown have got us into.
If it wasnt for them we would have been better placed to meet the banking crisis head on.
Because of their reliance on the pot of gold from the tory days they allowed their "good old buddies" the GDY's to talk them into a ruinous war we couldn't afford and cannot now get ourselves out of.
It was obvious from the start they were just writing blank cheques and announcing £millions here there and everywhere. I remember they were fighting to get to the microphone to make the announcements first, and then repeating it a couple of days later.

But then eventually Blown will probably have another sobbing session and everyone will feel sorry for him.

rant over for 5 mins then back to boiling again

johnnyone

What pot of gold?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datab...borrowing-data

steviedeluxe

Thanks for that. I didn't realise the figures were so bad under Major - for all his faults I thought he was quite prudent with money matters, maybe I've been conned by media propaganda at the time Edit - seems the Tory govt of the time spent quite a lot on Black Wednesday.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wednesday
I think the biggest mistake that Brown&co made was to do nothing about an obvious housing price bubble. But, it has to be said that the Tories said nothing either (as Bil rightly points out it was only the Libs who sounded off warning signals) and indeed said they'd keep to Labour spending plans if they were elected. The temptation of easy money from easy credit and an apparently infinite rise in property prices, was too powerful for leaders, not just in the UK but in Ireland, Spain, the US etc. Yes the bubble burst when certain matters came to light in the US, but it would have burst anyway, as people were lying about their income in the UK to get 125% mortgages.
I'm not going to try and change Dick's tribal views on the political parties. I'm sure that if Cameron was found guilty of kidnapping Maddie and feeding her to Shergar, Dick would still claim he was more a statesman than Brown (or Millipede). But I will say that Dave is far smarter than people give him credit for. If he can survive this hacking scandal, and keep the coalition together, he may well turn the UK economy around. But it's looking a bit precarious at the moment.

Dick Dasterdly

I simply try to tell it how it is Steve and no I am no great lover of the Tories though I do confess to voting for them on one occasion only, when I was young and daft, leastways thats my excuse anyway, but I do at present see them as slightly the lesser of the two evils, but there again thats not always the case.

To the best of my knowledge horses are not carniverous Steve, though I have had the occasional one try to take a bite of my rump, or should that be rump steak.

The point I was making was that other W.EU countries are coming through the crisis with little serious damage and with a certain amount of forethought and common sense we could have done likewise.
However basic common sense was never Browns forte and he just kept on ploughing us deeper and deeper into the mire even long after the writing was on the wall.
A bit silly to compare us with Spain which has been an inevitable and obvious basket case just waiting to happen ever since it pulled out of the last recession, unless huge changes were made to the economy and the way the country was being run as a whole.

jackytoo

I loathe Brown, I believe he is a dysfunctional pill popping fraud. He is 3 fags short of a packet. Even his marriage is a sham.

However I am beginning to think he may have been doing the right things to pull UK out of recession. The economy was picking up until the condems took power and started to cut...and cut