Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Then you will know the pub "The olde English Gentleman" on the corner as I do. No traditionally dressed Muslim ever ventured through the doors they were however no stranger to the Off-Licence a few doors up. Keeping up appearances is the game for many.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

I think that pub closed a few years back, before I moved to the area.
And yes, there are plenty of Muslims who will take a drink, but not in open view.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

That is what I am asking about, I admit I am not an authority on muslins UK, Spanish or otherwise, there are some on here or appear to be, that is why I as kf it is compatible to serve halal meat in a restaurant where pork dishes are served.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

try looking at the question more openly, and include Jews in that, as followers of Islam are actually a branch of Judaism, having copied the strictures and scriptures. They also see Abraham and Jesus as prophets.

the main difference between halal and kashrut is the jews do not say the name of god over each animal slaughtered.
as I understand it most of the animals are on the two lists although kashrut only allows cloven hooves.
sunni's, who comprise the majority of muslims, also follow the jewish way of only eating fish with scales and fins, whilst other parts of the muslim religion allow all types of fish.

so to a greater extent the problem is solved, in that Jews and Muslims could be served the same food.
what is not resolved is whether it is acceptable to have only one prep/cooking area where non approved foods are also cooked. Where "contamination" could occur.

think of it as you would peanuts in the same processing plant.
:eek:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

yes, and look forward to it in the privacy of their own homes or hotel rooms but always in moderation.

I worked for a UK company and dealt with their Saudi agents.
they had a great interest in fine wines, single malts, which were used as bribes - along with bullet proof vests and kevlar helmets for private use.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

I am asking about halal food and pork, not about jews and muslims eating the same food.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Do you ever get the impression this thread is a little beyond your scope for understanding? I only ask because you are not actually discussing it, just trying to pick a fight?

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

but swine is prohibited by both sets of laws, as I said earlier it would be difficult to ensure perfect non-contamination bearing in mind the small prep/cooking areas in most restaurants - unless it was possible to cook the food offsite in an approved manner.

would a different set of untensils and pots/pans have to be used ??

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

to quote the words of a forum regluar;

If I knew any muslims, which I dont, I could ask them, but as I dont, I cant ................:rofl:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

By that rationale vegetarians should stop eating food in restaurants that cook meat right? I know plenty on kitchens who are more than aware of the social sensitivities of vegetarians and run their kitchens on a professional basis accordingly.


As I have said, this is not becoming law people, its not being forced on the good, Christian folk of the world but if you are a struggling restaurant or bar in Spain, why not cash in? If I had somewhere I would be turning it into a halal friendly place and would be advertising where I could!

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

answer the question, you are the one who opened the box, or are you once again proving you are not the subject matter expert you want people to think you are

your conversations were much better when covering the Olympics

I'm going for a tapas not covered by the Quran or Talmud

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

You have, once again, jumped on the outrage bus, it shows the latent xenophobia you have old chap, there is no law being passed by the Global Government or Illuminati, its just one person suggesting that people could tap into the BILLIONS on offer by wealthy muslims. Well done for hitting the stereotype though chap, well done.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

but I thought that forum regular had Gulf Arab friends.........
and had waited until it was dark at Ramadan..................

:hysterical:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

OK lets say i am the owner of a sturggling Spains restaurant, I would like to gain new custome without too much disruption to the customers I already have.

Would I have to stop serving corizo, magra, pork fillets, lacon, lomo etc if I am to attract muslim customers?

Would they enter my place if they know that non halal food (pork) is being prepared and served.

Is that so hard for you to answer, and would muslims come knowing that I have no real knowledge of the cooking of their typical food?

Would there be any credibility in my restaurant? Because as far as I can see a Brit specialising in Lituanian food would not have much cred.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Do you know what is really funny old chap? I have 40 odd friends from here, this forum on Facebook. They all get to see my friends, posts from family, pictures, all sorts of personal information that others on here simply don't have access to and when you say things like that all that happens is they see your attempt at calling me a liar and think less of you. If thats what you want then good on ya, you keep at it, its not making me look like a bitter twat at all.



Yet another thread ruined eh? Well done, well done indeed.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

who said anything about laws ? twas nah me Jimmy
your idiocy is outweighed only by your wish to turn discussions you lose into personal abuse

I am sure you will be able to tap into the billions that wealthy muslims will put the way of a Jew, please enjoy the wait and let us all know on BE Spain how you get on

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Its pointless me trying to answer you, you're already on the outrage bus and you are not reading what I type. I have been with Arabs in a restaurant while they ate "non muslimaniac" food. From kitchens that handle all sorts of haraam foods. That is the point I have been stressing for three pages now and for three pages you have whine and bitched until now... now I have had to explain my point to you. Halal food is not specific to a particular country. That is what you are failing to understand. KFC can and do, halal chicken. Its still KFC! Subway do halal. Its still a subway.
Can we ALL please get off the outrage bus?

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Irony? Much?


Who said I was going to open anything? I am asking a question. Bringing an article to the discussion.

Look what you have done to YET ANOTHER THREAD!

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

So does that include pork?

YES

NO

Dont know

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Did I mention pork? Seriously, did I? Read what I wrote, did I mention pork? I have been here too long to let people twist my words (which is what you and the Bigot are trying to do) so stop it and we might be able to go back to discussing the thread rather than a point you are desperately trying to labour to death!

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

I have only asked one one question, would muslim customers be prepared to eat in a restaurant where pork dishes are served on the menu along with halal which meets their religious requirements?

Is that so difficult to answer?

All I want to know is if a Spanish/British restaurant is struggling, would they be able to serve halal food to the future customers that you are posting about, (affluent muslims) without having to radically change the existing menu, or would it be considered a total no/no to the muslim customers.

Is that so difficult to answer?

I have not said anthing that could be considered as "being on the outrage bus, I have not called you a liar, I am sticking to my original question from a purely business point of view, as I think you may have a good and valid point.

Of course any business consideration needs to be investigated before investments are made, and I think the mixing of foods is an important issue to be looked into, as spain is a nation of pork lovers.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

... and I have answered it. So many times I have answered it. Might not be the answer you are looking for but I have answered it. One of the questions I have asked you since you are determined to steer the discussion into a fight about restaurants HAVING to adapt is the perfectly valid one about vegetarians. If they cope with meat being prepared and cross contamination is not an issue with the kitchens why is it so hard for you and Admiral Horatio to get that this is simply one person making an observation. A third of the planet wil be muslim in 13 years. Like it or loathe it many will have to start thinking about the future!

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Where have you answered it?

I am not talking about veggies and you know it

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

What would be good is if you go back and read my replies, and I mean actually read them rather than just glossing over and continuing your bewildering quest for a "yes" or a "no".

Oh and I do know you are not talking about veggies, its an example of what I am talking about and to be fair, whether pork is produced, handled or even used as a mud pack in a kitchen is of no consequence. We are talking about making businesses more halal friendly in order to optimise profits....

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

I can't remember ever seeing post mix here. I don't think most drinkers Spanish, British or otherwise would put up with it.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

We had it in Jerez. I know it might be regional and depend on size but we definitely had it as the barman asked for us to "say when"

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Just spoke to a Muslim guy who works in the local accountants. I asked him if he would/could eat in a restaurant that served pork. He said yes why? I tried to explain the "discussion" on this thread. He can't see the problem. He also loves a bacon sandwich.;)

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

In the UK, I often worked with Muslim colleagues and have been out for meals with them many times. The more religious ones would never come along if we were going to a pub to eat, but would happily join us if we were going to a restaurant where alcohol was served (always seemed a dubious distinction to me, but it's their choice).

If it wasn't an establishment that served halal meat, they would just choose something vegetarian from the menu, no problem. Nobody ever refused to go somewhere where pork was prepared and served, e.g. Italian restaurants where a number of dishes would contain bacon.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

i am talking about optimising profits, but if a restaurant had to stop serving certain dishes because they are not compatible with muslims Pork being the major example, would that be really optimisning profits.

Of course if they are compartible then there is not problem if chorizo and lomo pork filled, can still be served that is, I dont know the answer you do so tell.

would muslims still come to a place that serves pork, simples.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

But we are talikng about muslim tourists who live in muslim countries and are on holiday.

To be fair the muslims in the Uk really dont have much choice if they want to go out with colleagues in the UK.

A lot of strict muslims would not be socialising with Brits anyway.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Read my post . The answer is yes. Now I know that I only asked one Muslim, but that is because I only know one Muslim.
So did you read and understand my post?
Yes
No
Don't know

;);)

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

A few fundamentalists might feel that way, but it is only a few. I think I have probably done more socialising with Muslim people than you have, by the sound of it, and as I say, if they don't want to risk eating meat that might not be halal, they just go for something vegetarian and never make a fuss about it.

Come to think of it, we have met Muslim tourists a few times in Spain, having got chatting in restaurants as you do, and they do exactly the same thing here. They have the same problem my OH does, who eats neither meat nor fish, in that the number of places they can find vegetarian food is very limited so we tend to come across them in Indian and Italian restaurants which are normally a safe bet.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

well obviously he does not adhere to the rules of his religion does he, we were talking about muslims who eat only halan food, which I am sure are more numerous that a token muslim bacon butty lover.

We are talking about a business plan, so a few that stray from the rigth path and eat pork, are not really relevant when considering the wider picture.

IE most people 5 fingers, but there are some born with 6, if would be a shite business plan to go into the 6 finger glove business though would nt it?

If you see what I mean.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

yes

see how easy it is RM to answer yes no or dont know.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

:goodpost:

brings a bit of sensibility to the whole matter
because although some don't want to hear it, there are people out there who don't force their religion, their beliefs, down everyone's throat.
they understand the world is made for living in and that all good sensible atoms may go round and round but never collide with anyone else.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

The problem is though we were talking about the rise of the affluent Muslim traveller, but as usual we have gone way off thread.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Wow - an answer:blink:

I think this illustrates that Muslims are as diverse as Jews and Christians. I've certainly known Jews eat pork although others would never do so. Some Christians are far more strict on their observance of rules than others. Some Muslims drink and presumably eat pork and other non-halal foods - it would be odd if that wasn't the case.

There is not one rule that fits all.

I think JL's question is very valid.

Basically the question is; what would you have to do in order for your establishment to be acceptable to enough Muslims to make money from them and would those steps make it too unattractive to other customers so you would lose them?

It's the kind of question all businesses have to weigh up all the time.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

At last...............not an Etta James impression:rofl:

I know that you are in the restaurant business, I seem to recall that you put a sample menu on here and I thought it was good.

You have it the nail on the head.

Would it be as simple as adding to the menu or would it have to be a huge overhaul, RM who started the thread is being very coy.............surley he is the one to answer as he has all the answers.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

:flypig:


well now we understand the type of restaurant you will be opening......
vegetarians understand that a restaurant will have a certain degree of seperation between the prep of vegetable and meat product. Believe it or not it could actually be law to do so. Failure to do so could mean closing down :(
some vegans may be stricter, but generally understand that, like Muslims, Jews and those of different religions, it can be difficult to ensure scrupulous separation. It can be the one concession you have to make to have a pleasant evening out with friends, or not as the case may be.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

It's possible to start a new business that targets tourists or expats etc, that also brings in the odd local. For instance sheesha bars on the Edgware Road in London now get Brit customers who want to try the water pipes - but they were originally set up as a place for Mid-East gentlemen to relax. See also the Irish pubs in Madrid that probably get as many Spanish customers at night as expats.
I doubt very much that an existing place in Spain that served Spanish fare (including pork products) and booze, would be able to attract observant Muslims. Starbucks or McDs, possibly. But otherwise it would surely be better to start a place aiming at that market from the off? I know in both Madrid and Granada there are tea-houses (teterias) in a certain street that also hosts eating places.