Re: Welcome to the future.
 

That is it, if you can´t feed them, don´t breed them. Simples.:D

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Oh if only a large part of the UK thought that way, they could slash their benefits bill in half!
I never could understand why in an over crowded island they actually pay people to breed.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

but it seems in Spain as soon as they find they can't feed them they drive into the campo and dump their dogs and cats, or in our village push them out at the roundabout
don't seem to notice any difference as it isnt the cat or dog thats eating them out of house and home, many of them are already on starvation diets
:thumbdown:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

So what happens if you have children when you are relatively well off and then you lose your job or your marriage breaks up? You cull the children? :eek:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

YES.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

you do it to the dogs and cats why not the children, would make you more conscious of your responsibilities in life
of course you may wish to go back to a previous era where you sell your children off to a slaver

would make people more careful about going round popping off kids to cement a relationship or to just be having sex with someone without any thoughts for consequences - One primary reason for Britains skyhigh benefits costs is because there is a safety net which isnt there in other countries, why do you think they are so eager to catch the first boat to the UK !!

All Actions Result in a Consequence

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Dom & Decon I'm in total agreement

Poca, you make a greater effort for the sake of the children, and if that's not on your agenda then don't have any in the first place.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Perhaps there should be good benefits for 2 children and nil for anymore.

My niece was promoted last year which put her in the 40% tax bracket and she loses her family allowance. Not much incentive for more responsibilty is there:thumbdown:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

not when there may be a couple living next door who are able to "engineer" their salaries and pay themselves £39,000 each and take the rest in dividends.

`

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Originally Posted by Pocaloca
Now I know this is a wind-up, you aren't real! Or are you??? :scarper:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

YES.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

OK no need to shout.

Of course you do. And sometimes that involves moving to another country with better work opportunities and a better healthcare or welfare system.

And no, I never had any ... not because I wouldn't do my best for them, of course I would. I'd even make them home-made burgers :D. I've just never been in a secure enough situation, and it wouldn't be fair on them.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Arrhh :)

Pocaloca, there is no evidence that rich children are any happier than poor children, in fact the opposite is often true

If you still want them and can, then I say go for it!

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Not with people like Decon.YA around, no chance! :ohmy:

Think I'll stick with dogs and cats ...

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Honestly, did you really expect a sensible answer to you question about culling children?

A bit dramatic innit? I have nothing to do with your breeding plans.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

I agree wholeheartedly. If benefits continue to be paid for every additional child, how can being in work ever pay more than being on benefits for someone who has more than two children? Especially when housing costs for a large family are taken into account, and childcare which would have to be paid for if the parent(s) were working.

Before I left the UK I remember reading in our local paper about a couple who had been on benefits for many years, and had 14, yes 14, children (and before anyone makes any assumptions, they were not immigrants). The husband quite openly said that he could not take any job that paid less than £500 per week, or the family would be worse off. As neither of the parents had a single qualification between them, that is never going to happen.

People who are working have to think carefully about whether they can afford to have another child, because they won't get a pay rise if they do (although they may get Child Benefit, which isn't a fortune). How can it ever be right for people on benefits to continue having child after child, when those who are paying tax to support them may be having to limit their own families more than they would like?

I've been a socialist all my life, but as far as I'm concerned, people should realise that they have an obligation to behave responsibly.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Why is the government providing benefits for children? surely this should be done if at all by tax concessions. People would then first have to work to gain.

Is anyone following the Derby fire case with the Phillpot's?
Take a look at the benefits these scroungers have been receiving, and it would appear they set the fire partially in an attempt to increase their gains, killing six of the children in the process

http://www.thisisderbyshire.co.uk/Ph...#axzz2KnLjtjMZ

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

remember what I said

All Actions Result in a Consequence

you have to stick by your decisions through thick and thin. OK so you "decide" or "plan" to have 10 children - but you know full well that here in Spain your decision/plan could cause jeapardy to some or all of those kids.
You have to take responsibility for your decision.
Why should you palm that responsibility on to someone else to ensure those children are clothed and fed.
stick with your dogs and cats by all means - you gain a better insight into life that way than you do by just having children.
When we had 3 dogs I called them "the kids". They all had tons of dog sensibility but were really the equal to a 7 year old child - at an age where they were too old for you to take total responsibility but not old enough to allow them to do what they wanted.

you have to have a plan, you have to have a plan B, C, D, E etc. Nothing goes the way you want it. You get up in the morning and someone like Domino has made an outrageous comment on BE Spain and that take an hour or so out of your day. your plans have gone down the swannee.
so what is plan b??

But please understand that when you are dealing with those dogs the look in their eyes when they have been deserted, dumped, thrown out. They don't understand why, they can't ask.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Jeezuz! what a dysfunctional family. Perhaps family is the wrong word. It beggars belief that people live like that. Animals have better morals and family structure than those people:ohmy:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

If it was up to me that is the first benefit that would be scrapped for everyone!

If there was no financial help there wouldn't be so many very young single mums, the ones who make a lifetime career out of claiming benefits because they don't see why they should support themselves, their brats become a free meal ticket. :thumbdown:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

You think the family allowance is enough to bring up a child these days?

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

No, but unfortunately it is perceived by some as the key to open the door for other benefits and a non working lifestyle

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Perceived incorrectly I guess then, as child benefit of course is collected by most parents in the land, working and non working

We stuck ours in a bank account and gave it to our daughter when she came of age ... the child benefited :)

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

and definitely should be stopped for
a) all those from the UK who move to another EU country
b) anyone going to the UK who doesn't have the child with them

so many people forget that getting CB is the key to the door to many other things, and it also guarantees payment of "the stamp" for future pension.

as I said earlier, you should be responsible for your actions, in all ways and not rely on the state to dig you out of the shit.
this has only come about since WWII and has progressively got worse and worse to the point where it isn't worth getting out of bed.
OOPPSS another sprog on the way
:thumbdown:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Not ALL. For instance if a mother and child are resident in Spain yet the father works in the UK and pays tax and NI there and comes here at weekends for instance

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

then they move from a) to b)
that is why we are paying out £millions to Poles and others who come over to work and they get CB for children that have never left the home country.
they should be eligible for any local credit/benefit from the country they are living in not the country they are working in. Unless the child is with them.

It is your scenario that opens it up to all and sundry as interpreted within the liberal reading of benefits for all by the EU.

and remember that CB is Tax Free irrespective of whether the adult in receipt is earning above or below the tax threshold - subject to the High Income Charge.
also Child Benefit doesn’t count as income for other benefits.
http://https://www.gov.uk/child-bene...er-information

more worrying - how can anyone be sure the CB is actually of benefit to the child concerned when it is paid to someone who has no direct control over the child in another country.

but credit to you for saving for your daughter's future.

`

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Its how far you take it isnt it!

One person is paying into the UK system, living there and gets child benefit for his child in Spain and you say they shouldnt

I paid all my life into the system and moved abroad so I no longer contribute there regarding tax or normal day to day stuff .... my pension is a benefit .. should I get it? :D

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

you know that is not what is being said or meant....
and as I said, that scenario is what has opened up payments to all and sundry.

perhaps you would like to see Marriage Allowance re-introduced as a tax free benefit as well, it would re-invigorate marriage. This could also be paid for spouses living in Spain, Poland, Lithuania, Italy etc, and remember the now broadened scope of "spouse".

You paid all your life into the system to get the pension where you should want to live out your remaining years is up to you, be it Spain, Seychelles or Easter Island.
just not all will give you the WFP that comes in very handy Harry during these cold days and nights in sunny Spain.
;)

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Well I did give you a chance to say you weren't serious, but you repeated that you were! :huh:

My question, in response to your comment "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em", was what you would do in cases where your circumstances changed unpredictably and you were no longer in a position to "feed 'em". It could happen to anyone! You still haven't answered that.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Sounds very sensible.

Could you tell me, out of interest - before the recent cap, was child benefit included in your taxable income?

In which case it would seem a bit pointless to cap it and introduce all the extra administration associated with means-testing.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

We're talking 202 and before .... at that time I was on a zillion percent tax rate anyway so it made little difference. But no, I dont remember including it in taxable income

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

You know very well that I'm not just talking about child benefit, it's just the stepping stone to all the other benefits.... free housing, social security etc.... the list goes on and on!
No wonder girls as young as fifteen plan to be a single mum, they end up financially better off than going out to work, and with the added bonus of not having to get up in a morning.
Maybe it's not like that in your part of the world, but for a large part of the UK that is the reality of life in the twenty first century!

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Can you buy steak for a fiver a kilo off the same butcher and if you can what 'cut' of steak is it? It more than likely is beef but calling it steak may be pushing it a tad:rofl: Ask him for a kilo of steak and tell him you'll mince it yourself at home and see whats offered to you at that price.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Totally agree with you Meg. It is a sorry sight when you see single mums pushing kids around with a sausage roll shoved in their mush, knowing that they will go on to produce more kids that will also have to be paid for by the long suffering tax payer.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

In answer to your question, about people no longer being able to feed their kids, people who have been responsible workers usually dont have such a large number of them that it would be an issue not having enough food to go round.

When a bum like that swine Philpot, whos last job was a paper round, goes on to have kids in double figures, knowing full well that no matter what job he gets, would never be able to support his offspring himself without massive handouts from the taxpayer, that is what is meant by the term, “if you cant feed them don’t breed them

The same goes for Karen Matthews, who pulled the kidnapping stunt, to squeeze more money out of the already generous British public.
How can a slob who has no intention of ever working be allowed to “breed” as a choice of career.

As for culling the kids, in this day and age, usually people who have jobs and then fall on hard times, are not parents of large families.

The usually have a “manageable sized family” ie one that has been formed around the capability of the parents to support their own children out of their wage packet.

In fact it you look at a section of high earners and rich peeps you will see that they have small families (Richard Branson, Prince Andrew 2, duke of Westminster 3.
Could that be because they don’t need to breed to up their income with extra benefits for each sprog produced.

Most people (workers) limit the number of children in accordance with their wage packet and and housing, so if the breadwinner does lose their job, the main reason for hardship in not the expense of feeding the children, but other factors such as credit cards, mortgage debts etc.

As a childless person yourself, although you do not have firsthand experience, you should at least understand the maths

I did not bring up the subject of “culling the kids”, you did.

Of course nobody would advocate that, so I answered in a sarky way to your stupid question, because an everyone knows, or should know, not breeding kids in the first place, is not the same as culling.

The term “if you cant feed them don’t breed them “ is sort of a “rule of nature”.

Even animals cease to breed if circumstances are not right, ie shortage of food and other factors, but the same does not seem to apply with people in the UK.

I must add that it does apply to people living in Spain, Italy .

Could that be because a child in those countries is seen as a financial burden and not a wage increase?

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

You have a single mum meter then?

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to bring up kids in the UK these days? Lets see ... Child benefit is about £20 a week for the first kid, and £13 per child thereafter So you have two kids and you therefore get £33 a week and in theory that is supposed to feed and clothe them as well as provide everything else that goes with it. You think that the single mum is going to make much of a profit out of that? Yes, I realise that there are other things that can go with it but the only alternative they have is to go out to work and then pay double what they earn in child care!

The long suffering tax payer of course, when they have kids, also receives the child benefit that has to be paid for by the long suffering tax payer

:D

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Its called steak mince because of the fat content in relation to any other types of mince. Thanks, I've cut enough animals in the past to understand that concept.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Yes but it's not just child benefit their social security benefits go up for each child. I don't see many large families in Spain now but then I don't know everywhere. Same as the UK with young single parents. I know it happens on the sink estates but apart from some town centres I don't see or know any. Don't know the figures but there are an awful lot goes into further education instead of breeding.

What annoys me is comments in the papers such as 15 year olds have baby, Grandprents delighted. I agree with standing by them...but delighted:blink:

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

Child allowance, disability living allowance and mobility allowance are all non taxable.

Re: Welcome to the future.
 

I used to have one, getting a bit slow now but still reasonably accurate !!

I used to work for a major housing assoc on a project to get long term unemployed into work, you meet them all.
What can you do when a single mum has an appointment to discuss job opportunities at 0930 and you can see her chatting to her mates outside supermarket after the school run (round the corner) at 0945. You go across the street to the shop and say good morning but get ignored. Girl never turns up. The time of 2 people has been wasted. Next time you see her and ask why she didnt turn up it was because her little girl was ill and was at the doctors.

I had a long string of these girls, pregnant at 15, now 20, "I want to make something of my life", but never turn up for interviews.
One was actually proud of the fact she hadnt worked since 18, was almost 40, and thought it was a big joke that the JobCentre had sent her to us for help.
There was more positive attitude from local Lithuanians and Nepalese who wanted to work rather than live off benefits - not their way of life. And you have no money left after benefits to send to the family back home.
They always attended early for interviews, were always coming along with information on courses they wanted to take to improve their employment chances. One guy we sent on a security course started his own business and now employs 5 security guards.

Considering only £20 a week for the first child they seem to get some very good deals on the kids clothing, new, up to date, regularly coming home on the bus with pushchair and a pile of shopping bags full of clothes, latest mobile stuck to their ear.

but then if the Taxpayer Bank isnt performing too well there could be the Bank of Mum & Dad in the background. IME there may have been a boyfriend but rarely the father of child(ren). They are most emphatic about that - it could affect their benefits.
:(