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Welcome to the future.

Welcome to the future.

Old Feb 16th 2013, 10:12 pm
  #271  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Pocaloca View Post
Sounds very sensible.

Could you tell me, out of interest - before the recent cap, was child benefit included in your taxable income?

In which case it would seem a bit pointless to cap it and introduce all the extra administration associated with means-testing.
We're talking 202 and before .... at that time I was on a zillion percent tax rate anyway so it made little difference. But no, I dont remember including it in taxable income
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Old Feb 16th 2013, 11:19 pm
  #272  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
You think the family allowance is enough to bring up a child these days?
You know very well that I'm not just talking about child benefit, it's just the stepping stone to all the other benefits.... free housing, social security etc.... the list goes on and on!
No wonder girls as young as fifteen plan to be a single mum, they end up financially better off than going out to work, and with the added bonus of not having to get up in a morning.
Maybe it's not like that in your part of the world, but for a large part of the UK that is the reality of life in the twenty first century!
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 12:23 am
  #273  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by rugbymatt View Post
As I said, my butchers sell lean steak mince for 5 quid a kilo. How is that expensive? Its actually cheaper than Tescos value mince by weight!
Can you buy steak for a fiver a kilo off the same butcher and if you can what 'cut' of steak is it? It more than likely is beef but calling it steak may be pushing it a tad Ask him for a kilo of steak and tell him you'll mince it yourself at home and see whats offered to you at that price.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 6:52 am
  #274  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by megmet View Post
You know very well that I'm not just talking about child benefit, it's just the stepping stone to all the other benefits.... free housing, social security etc.... the list goes on and on!
No wonder girls as young as fifteen plan to be a single mum, they end up financially better off than going out to work, and with the added bonus of not having to get up in a morning.
Maybe it's not like that in your part of the world, but for a large part of the UK that is the reality of life in the twenty first century!
Totally agree with you Meg. It is a sorry sight when you see single mums pushing kids around with a sausage roll shoved in their mush, knowing that they will go on to produce more kids that will also have to be paid for by the long suffering tax payer.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 6:58 am
  #275  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Pocaloca View Post
Well I did give you a chance to say you weren't serious, but you repeated that you were!

My question, in response to your comment "if you can't feed 'em, don't breed 'em", was what you would do in cases where your circumstances changed unpredictably and you were no longer in a position to "feed 'em". It could happen to anyone! You still haven't answered that.
In answer to your question, about people no longer being able to feed their kids, people who have been responsible workers usually dont have such a large number of them that it would be an issue not having enough food to go round.

When a bum like that swine Philpot, whos last job was a paper round, goes on to have kids in double figures, knowing full well that no matter what job he gets, would never be able to support his offspring himself without massive handouts from the taxpayer, that is what is meant by the term, “if you cant feed them don’t breed them

The same goes for Karen Matthews, who pulled the kidnapping stunt, to squeeze more money out of the already generous British public.
How can a slob who has no intention of ever working be allowed to “breed” as a choice of career.

As for culling the kids, in this day and age, usually people who have jobs and then fall on hard times, are not parents of large families.

The usually have a “manageable sized family” ie one that has been formed around the capability of the parents to support their own children out of their wage packet.

In fact it you look at a section of high earners and rich peeps you will see that they have small families (Richard Branson, Prince Andrew 2, duke of Westminster 3.
Could that be because they don’t need to breed to up their income with extra benefits for each sprog produced.

Most people (workers) limit the number of children in accordance with their wage packet and and housing, so if the breadwinner does lose their job, the main reason for hardship in not the expense of feeding the children, but other factors such as credit cards, mortgage debts etc.

As a childless person yourself, although you do not have firsthand experience, you should at least understand the maths

I did not bring up the subject of “culling the kids”, you did.

Of course nobody would advocate that, so I answered in a sarky way to your stupid question, because an everyone knows, or should know, not breeding kids in the first place, is not the same as culling.

The term “if you cant feed them don’t breed them “ is sort of a “rule of nature”.

Even animals cease to breed if circumstances are not right, ie shortage of food and other factors, but the same does not seem to apply with people in the UK.

I must add that it does apply to people living in Spain, Italy .

Could that be because a child in those countries is seen as a financial burden and not a wage increase?
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 8:19 am
  #276  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by decon.YA View Post
Totally agree with you Meg. It is a sorry sight when you see single mums pushing kids around with a sausage roll shoved in their mush, knowing that they will go on to produce more kids that will also have to be paid for by the long suffering tax payer.
You have a single mum meter then?

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to bring up kids in the UK these days? Lets see ... Child benefit is about £20 a week for the first kid, and £13 per child thereafter So you have two kids and you therefore get £33 a week and in theory that is supposed to feed and clothe them as well as provide everything else that goes with it. You think that the single mum is going to make much of a profit out of that? Yes, I realise that there are other things that can go with it but the only alternative they have is to go out to work and then pay double what they earn in child care!

The long suffering tax payer of course, when they have kids, also receives the child benefit that has to be paid for by the long suffering tax payer

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Old Feb 17th 2013, 8:32 am
  #277  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by bob_bob View Post
Can you buy steak for a fiver a kilo off the same butcher and if you can what 'cut' of steak is it? It more than likely is beef but calling it steak may be pushing it a tad Ask him for a kilo of steak and tell him you'll mince it yourself at home and see whats offered to you at that price.
Its called steak mince because of the fat content in relation to any other types of mince. Thanks, I've cut enough animals in the past to understand that concept.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 8:35 am
  #278  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Yes but it's not just child benefit their social security benefits go up for each child. I don't see many large families in Spain now but then I don't know everywhere. Same as the UK with young single parents. I know it happens on the sink estates but apart from some town centres I don't see or know any. Don't know the figures but there are an awful lot goes into further education instead of breeding.

What annoys me is comments in the papers such as 15 year olds have baby, Grandprents delighted. I agree with standing by them...but delighted
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 8:46 am
  #279  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
We're talking 202 and before .... at that time I was on a zillion percent tax rate anyway so it made little difference. But no, I dont remember including it in taxable income
Child allowance, disability living allowance and mobility allowance are all non taxable.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 11:10 am
  #280  
 
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Mitzyboy View Post
You have a single mum meter then?

Do you have any idea how expensive it is to bring up kids in the UK these days? Lets see ... Child benefit is about £20 a week for the first kid, and £13 per child thereafter So you have two kids and you therefore get £33 a week and in theory that is supposed to feed and clothe them as well as provide everything else that goes with it. You think that the single mum is going to make much of a profit out of that? Yes, I realise that there are other things that can go with it but the only alternative they have is to go out to work and then pay double what they earn in child care!

The long suffering tax payer of course, when they have kids, also receives the child benefit that has to be paid for by the long suffering tax payer

I used to have one, getting a bit slow now but still reasonably accurate !!

I used to work for a major housing assoc on a project to get long term unemployed into work, you meet them all.
What can you do when a single mum has an appointment to discuss job opportunities at 0930 and you can see her chatting to her mates outside supermarket after the school run (round the corner) at 0945. You go across the street to the shop and say good morning but get ignored. Girl never turns up. The time of 2 people has been wasted. Next time you see her and ask why she didnt turn up it was because her little girl was ill and was at the doctors.

I had a long string of these girls, pregnant at 15, now 20, "I want to make something of my life", but never turn up for interviews.
One was actually proud of the fact she hadnt worked since 18, was almost 40, and thought it was a big joke that the JobCentre had sent her to us for help.
There was more positive attitude from local Lithuanians and Nepalese who wanted to work rather than live off benefits - not their way of life. And you have no money left after benefits to send to the family back home.
They always attended early for interviews, were always coming along with information on courses they wanted to take to improve their employment chances. One guy we sent on a security course started his own business and now employs 5 security guards.

Considering only £20 a week for the first child they seem to get some very good deals on the kids clothing, new, up to date, regularly coming home on the bus with pushchair and a pile of shopping bags full of clothes, latest mobile stuck to their ear.

but then if the Taxpayer Bank isnt performing too well there could be the Bank of Mum & Dad in the background. IME there may have been a boyfriend but rarely the father of child(ren). They are most emphatic about that - it could affect their benefits.

Last edited by Domino; Feb 17th 2013 at 11:13 am.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 12:58 pm
  #281  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by decon.YA View Post
In answer to your question, about people no longer being able to feed their kids, people who have been responsible workers usually dont have such a large number of them that it would be an issue not having enough food to go round.

When a bum like that swine Philpot, whos last job was a paper round, goes on to have kids in double figures, knowing full well that no matter what job he gets, would never be able to support his offspring himself without massive handouts from the taxpayer, that is what is meant by the term, “if you cant feed them don’t breed them

The same goes for Karen Matthews, who pulled the kidnapping stunt, to squeeze more money out of the already generous British public.
How can a slob who has no intention of ever working be allowed to “breed” as a choice of career.

As for culling the kids, in this day and age, usually people who have jobs and then fall on hard times, are not parents of large families.

The usually have a “manageable sized family” ie one that has been formed around the capability of the parents to support their own children out of their wage packet.

In fact it you look at a section of high earners and rich peeps you will see that they have small families (Richard Branson, Prince Andrew 2, duke of Westminster 3.
Could that be because they don’t need to breed to up their income with extra benefits for each sprog produced.

Most people (workers) limit the number of children in accordance with their wage packet and and housing, so if the breadwinner does lose their job, the main reason for hardship in not the expense of feeding the children, but other factors such as credit cards, mortgage debts etc.

As a childless person yourself, although you do not have firsthand experience, you should at least understand the maths

I did not bring up the subject of “culling the kids”, you did.

Of course nobody would advocate that, so I answered in a sarky way to your stupid question, because an everyone knows, or should know, not breeding kids in the first place, is not the same as culling.

The term “if you cant feed them don’t breed them “ is sort of a “rule of nature”.

Even animals cease to breed if circumstances are not right, ie shortage of food and other factors, but the same does not seem to apply with people in the UK.

I must add that it does apply to people living in Spain, Italy .

Could that be because a child in those countries is seen as a financial burden and not a wage increase?
Thanks for taking the time to answer properly, and I'm sorry I misunderstood your earlier response. But having seen some comments on here that verge on neo-Nazi, I sometimes find it hard to tell who's serious and who isn't!

I mainly agree with you, but unfortunately not everyone is able to plan the number of children they have so it fits neatly with their income. Accidents happen, even if you take precautions, and many people don't believe in abortion. Then there are religious factors, my Catholic father would have had ten children if he could (fortunately my atheist mother called a halt at three!). Then you get families of stepchildren, second marriages where each partner already has two or three.

You can never predict the future, so there has to be a safety net for unexpected hard times to make sure the children don't suffer.

These days you leave university with a debt of £50k, pay half your earnings in rent or mortgage, another chunk into a pension scheme, and now you are expected to save for your old age care. How anyone other than the super-rich will ever be able to afford to have kids in future I have no idea!
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 3:32 pm
  #282  
 
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Pocaloca View Post
Thanks for taking the time to answer properly, and I'm sorry I misunderstood your earlier response. But having seen some comments on here that verge on neo-Nazi, I sometimes find it hard to tell who's serious and who isn't!

I mainly agree with you, but unfortunately not everyone is able to plan the number of children they have so it fits neatly with their income. Accidents happen, even if you take precautions, and many people don't believe in abortion. Then there are religious factors, my Catholic father would have had ten children if he could (fortunately my atheist mother called a halt at three!). Then you get families of stepchildren, second marriages where each partner already has two or three.

You can never predict the future, so there has to be a safety net for unexpected hard times to make sure the children don't suffer.

These days you leave university with a debt of £50k, pay half your earnings in rent or mortgage, another chunk into a pension scheme, and now you are expected to save for your old age care. How anyone other than the super-rich will ever be able to afford to have kids in future I have no idea!
I have said it before, but there are people out there who scrimp and save to buy and run a decent home for them and theirs whilst those in the house next door are continually on benefits.
It used to be said that Death was the Great Leveller, but then we got the fluffy bunnies. Who insist that because someone hasn't been down the pub/club every night, got a good pension pot and a valuable house (we really do not have much control over house prices, just on where we can afford to live) they have to reduce their wealth to a point where they are now equal to those from benefit land when it comes to entering long term care.

so - is it worthwhile ???
lets all go on benefits from the day we leave school - after all there are all those eager immigrants coming in who want to work and pay taxes (we think)
so they can keep us in the manner to which we could easily become accustomed.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 3:55 pm
  #283  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by Pocaloca View Post
not everyone is able to plan the number of children they have so it fits neatly with their income.
Everyone is able to plan, just many do not.
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Old Feb 17th 2013, 5:14 pm
  #284  
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Default Re: Welcome to the future.

Originally Posted by decon.YA View Post
In answer to your question, about people no longer being able to feed their kids, people who have been responsible workers usually dont have such a large number of them that it would be an issue not having enough food to go round.

When a bum like that swine Philpot, whos last job was a paper round, goes on to have kids in double figures, knowing full well that no matter what job he gets, would never be able to support his offspring himself without massive handouts from the taxpayer, that is what is meant by the term, “if you cant feed them don’t breed them

The same goes for Karen Matthews, who pulled the kidnapping stunt, to squeeze more money out of the already generous British public.
How can a slob who has no intention of ever working be allowed to “breed” as a choice of career.

As for culling the kids, in this day and age, usually people who have jobs and then fall on hard times, are not parents of large families.

The usually have a “manageable sized family” ie one that has been formed around the capability of the parents to support their own children out of their wage packet.

In fact it you look at a section of high earners and rich peeps you will see that they have small families (Richard Branson, Prince Andrew 2, duke of Westminster 3.
Could that be because they don’t need to breed to up their income with extra benefits for each sprog produced.

Most people (workers) limit the number of children in accordance with their wage packet and and housing, so if the breadwinner does lose their job, the main reason for hardship in not the expense of feeding the children, but other factors such as credit cards, mortgage debts etc.

As a childless person yourself, although you do not have firsthand experience, you should at least understand the maths

I did not bring up the subject of “culling the kids”, you did.

Of course nobody would advocate that, so I answered in a sarky way to your stupid question, because an everyone knows, or should know, not breeding kids in the first place, is not the same as culling.

The term “if you cant feed them don’t breed them “ is sort of a “rule of nature”.

Even animals cease to breed if circumstances are not right, ie shortage of food and other factors, but the same does not seem to apply with people in the UK.

I must add that it does apply to people living in Spain, Italy .

Could that be because a child in those countries is seen as a financial burden and not a wage increase?
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