Thats what our long term plan was but the recession hit work hard, I'm self employed as well, and I couldn't justify just switching off for a chunk of the year so it had to be put on hold and right at the moment I want to see what happens with Spain to see what we do.

Hi Barrie, you've clearly made up your mind so I don't think anything anyone says will put you off, so good luck to you.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is this.
At your age you will be well accustomed to dealing with all aspects of business and private matters in the UK and I'm sure will feel comfortable and confident in your dealings and contacts with others, particularly 'the authorities', both local and national.
I hadn't been in business in the UK when I retired here, but I was old enough not to be phased or troubled by what life could throw at me.
For the first year or so in Spain however, I felt I was a complete novice having to deal and struggle with the town hall, building regulations. vehicle registration, tax, utility companies etc etc. ALL operate and conduct themselves over here in a totally different manner than in the UK. There are cultural, administrative and behavioural differences that are completely alien to most UK residents. You get used to it certainly but that doesn't take away the initial feeling of inadequacy especially also taking into account the language barrier.
What it's like for a foreigner to open and operate a business under these condition I can only guess.
Once again though, good luck with whatever you decide.

Barrie, you know the truth in all this.....
you are in a minority at work, over in places like Kings Lynn and Wisbech it use to be the reverse, but gradually that changed until now you wouldnt be able to get work there - they are closed shops, controlled by gang masters and English isnt even the second language.

Some people are very good at expressing ignorance when it comes to paying for goods, especially food and cigarettes. An Indian friend of mine runs a corner shop, she is getting it all the time, even/especially from the English, who are predominately on benefits.

there are the deniers here who never see an immigrant from one year to the next - that means they are either in a different time warp or just look at the pavement all day. Many parts of the country are becoming less and less England. Fine for some, but when you have to watch what you say, what you do, find your kids are in a minority at school and not being taught as well as they should because the other members of the class can't speak English.
In Luton advertisements for women's underclothes had to be pasted over because it was unacceptable to some going to the mosque.

Spain is over 30 years behind the UK and Northern Europe in so many things (the Spanish will be at the front of the queue to tell you that). They are very prideful of their way of life and their history, and rightly so. Their language is part of that pride and you have to learn it or stay in your English commune.

Your future is what you want to make of it, even if you are driven from middle England to the South Coast to live the way you were brought up and lived all your lives, where your standards are acceptable to the people standing next to you.
If you come to Spain you can move in to the English speaking communities in Murcia, CDS etc with ease. You can open a shop relatively easily because the common practice is to get an abogado to assist you with all the permits, paperwork etc. That is the Spanish way, which is why there are so many around.
It comes down to what you want from life, now and the future and how you are going to achieve it. Please, don't call it The Dream, it isnt - it could turn into a nightmare, but as with leaving home, getting married, having kids, getting divorced it is all part of life's rich tapestry that makes you who and what you are.

so when we are sitting next to each other on a moth eaten battered settee exchanging memories in a nursing home between munching on our tablets - I hope yours are as good as mine

there are the deniers here who never see an immigrant from one year to the next - that means they are either in a different time warp or just look at the pavement all day

Not true, there are many places that aren't like you describe. I don't see anything wrong with a few anyway as long as the place isn't overun by East-European gangs. 1 foreigner in our village..from Argentina. Tradesmen I have used have ranged from Polish, Turkish to an Iraqi and they have all been bloody good. We can also get our car washed cheap in town for £4 and they do a good job!

Spain is just the same in parts with Romanians and Moroccans so anyone who comes to Spain to get away from immigrants is going to get a shock.

As RM would say...Oh the irony

Thanks for that, and we are still at the heads or tails bit UK or Spain...

I was speaking with my sister earlier and I echo your comment, at the mo, I am able to file all our tax stuff do the VAT and complain when things go wrong.
We have not underestimated the differences in the Spainish system, and thats why we have been including the wifes dad in all of our ideas, in fact he has been instrumental in suggesting possible locations. Both him and his partner are fluent spainish speakers as they live in a small town with mostly locals.

And thanks for the laugh Domino.. We are originally from west london, the wife lived in Southall, and we moved to Luton of all places because our blond haired daughter was being stared at in the streets. We are now in Northampton and the locals moan about the eastern europeans all the time, but they still employ them below the minimum wage... go figure..

I know its not a dream, we are just looking for somewhere that will help us get through to our retirement, when we can then live in a dream world..

Funny when you think anyone who moves to spain IS an immigrant

As to the cheap car wash, be careful. One near us was doing a roaring trade at £5. but they were checking your glovebox for your address and the nice young man would ask you what your plans were for the day..

Guess what? when you got home your house had been turned over...

Card shop in Spain even with funky candles etc... how many cards do you need to sell to pay you €250 a month 'N.I.' ? How many to cover the rent? Food et al. You know the UK, you know the system, you know the language, the culture etc so I would think you would be better off staying put.

Card shops are folding in the UK too. One large chain has just closed down.

The only time I would consider opening a shop in Spain was if I had something unique to offer. TBH I can't think of anything that isn't available, it's all been done before.

Just found out something along these lines, you can claim the NI through your business expences and receive approx 43% back on your personal tax. Still higher than the silly little amount we pay here, but it all helps.

I've started a spreadsheet and will list all the stuff we cant get by without, comparing 3 Uk business's and renting a house against the same thing in Spain. I will of course have to believe the turnover figures for now, but if anyone is interested once I get some decent comparisons I will post them in a new thread.

Barrie, I'm a retired nurse but still a landlord and I claim thousands of pounds a year in legitimate expenses but, I am generating the income. My concern for you is will you not generate income. You have no safety nets in Spain, no benefit system.

Anyway, enough gloom, I wish you both all the very best of luck and hope it works out for you.

I understand all of this and thats why we have still not taken the plunge.
I'm happy to try anything as long as I know there is a way out.

Unfortunately there are also no benefits here in the uk for failed self employed, oh you might be lucky to get jobseekers allowance but nothing else if you have a property.

We would have some safety net, as I've said we have family in Spain, who are willing to put up with us, firstly while we sort ourselves out and if we should fail, it is planned to keep almost all of our capital here in the uk and drip feed it over (should spain be out choice) That way we can keep an eye on our cash flow. It will become very obvious if we are not making an income and we can then take appropriate action.
We also have the same here, family who are willing to put up with us. As its not a sure thing that we would make an income here either.

We will make NO decisions until we have looked at both situations in great depth. Thanks for your comment.

well if you think that the benefits in the UK are paulty, then you are in for a shock if you looked into what would be available to you in Spain in the same circumstances.

Here you get nothing in the way of unemployment benefit unless you have paid into the system, and then it is limited to a few months for every year worked un to a max of 2 years, that is as things stand now, but as cuts are being made due to the crisis.

So sometimes the devil you know and all that....

Please take good legal advice before committing to anything, have sent you a PM with details of SueG, a member here who will give good, INDEPENDENT advice.

Certainly will. And if the professional advice is dont come stay at home then we will look at the Uk and the possibility of a holiday home for the future..

Perhaps not the area you may be looking at, but i have found a couple of adds by businesses selling cards along with other things. If you are down that way you may like to call in - unless there are others here who can give you a report

1616 Books
International Book Store
Avda Federico Garcia Lorca 17,
Salobrena
Tel 968 61 07 50
email [email protected]

Spar
Calle Bikini, San Cristobal
Almunecar
Tel 626 467 655
email [email protected]

there are probably many many more, but I don't live on the coast and my access to free newspapers can be limited at times

hth
kr