lurchio

My exact point, 'most of the FOOTAGE was of the Police........'

Its hard to get the perspective when you are sitting at home watching TV, tutting to yourself whilst being fed what the MEDIA chooses to show you, and I accept that.

Its a different World in the middle of it and as I said, sometimes you have to escalate to the level you are confronted with and that level should be witnessed 'real time' for all to see, not selectively presented.

lurchio

Cricketman, follow the thread, it was others who said that things were getting 'ugly', I just offered a reason why!

bobd22

I can't see why Uk is hysterical for showing the protests and violence, I can understand why the Spanish press don't show so much, could it be this is at the request/control by the government not wanting a. people outside the area to know b. copycat action. As for it being a rare event well so were the riots in the UK last year but it was splashed all over the world. People has as been said have had enough of the austerity and not knowing when if it will get better. It will no doubt get worse.

I am watching UK news now showing the National Strike and protests in Greece. Let's face it Europe or many parts of it are in turmoil people are not just worried but scared of what the future holds. What are the police to do when faced with violence ? back off that will resolve it then and protect property. They have tactics they have to use them no matter where they are to protect life and property and maintain public order, if not what do we pay them for.

Any public protest no matter what country it is in will always be hijacked by anarchists/agitators.

billgates

When the police wear masks to hide their identity, that is point where things are out of control.

When the police forget (or ignore the fact) that they only exist because we, the public, wish to be policed, then we're truly on the road to anarchy.

Many of the police have nothing but contempt for the general population. You've probably seen some of those fly-on-the-wall police tv documentaries. Most are amusing to watch, fools getting pulled over while driving uninsured cars and trying to lie their way out of it, etc. but the overwhelming impression given off by the police, these public servants, is just one big power trip, that they deserve the utmost respect from the public and the public must show it or else. Appologising for getting caught. Being called a muppet, a prat in front of the cameras. It's all about the police and how difficult a job they've got having to keep the great unwashed in line.

lurchio

Its called Policing by consent, and I take your point there. Unfortunately, there is no other answer for some people than to fight fire with fire. The uninsured motorist caught by Officers on a 'power trip' could be the one that takes out a member of your family if he/she is not stopped.

If a mob was trying to burn your shop/house/car down or rip off your head, I don't think you wopuld be best pleased if they sent a Community Bobby!!!!!

Are they masks, or some form of protection against ammonia/CS which those that are 'organised' have almost unlimited access to and will not hesistate to use?

As I said, its understandable when comment follows on what we are FED. I'm not asking anyone to show up at the next problem to gain an objective view!!!!! Just saying that SOMETIMES you need to get the WHOLE picture to make an accurate judgement.

cricketman

No, this is absolute rubbish

And I repeat, the violence is coming from the police and politians in Spain, not the people. The politicians want the protests to stop, so they order the police to beat people up

In the UK student demonstrations, the police stopped the people's right to protest by trapping thousands of people on bridges for hours on end in the freezing cold.

The politicians try to create to perception of violence and anarchy to justify their own anti-democratic ways. In the Barcelona demonstrations, the police even had under cover policeman, dressed as civilians trying to create violent situations that could be filmed by television - so the police (and politicians) could gain the public's support to use violence against the protestors

And btw, the police work for the government, not for the people. Certainly in Spain anyway

billgates

I used to have a great deal of respect for the police. But that was about twenty years ago.
Nowadays I feel their whole attitude has changed. I've never had much to do with the police, never been in trouble or arrested or anything like that, but they just don't command the same respect any more.
They're all tooled up, stab jackets, guns, fast cars, designed to intimidate. The Guardia over here just give me a hard stare when they drive by - nothing friendly, unapproachable.
If you protest in the UK you get kettled. Your movements restricted. Effectively imprisoned until they decide to let you go. Regardless of whether you are violent or peaceful.
And yes, the London riots were unacceptable and frightening. But to be given six months jail for nicking a bottle of water, to serve as an example, as a deterrent to others, when the City has nicked 350 billion (so far) and then they will still get their bonuses, you have to wonder where it will all end.

lurchio

Cricketman, where is the evidence of your statements? Rumour, innuendo, or just plain sensationalism?

The Students on the bridge, its called CONTAINMENT. As with most things, the best way to avoid a hazard is to remove it or contain it. Ordinary people are then spared the trauma and disruption that way.

Boy, the media would be rubbing their hands if they read some of this, the 'selective' plan works!!!!!!

cricketman

It's all over the media, it just depends which media you consume and believe

Watching Salvados and reading El Pais is a good start

Dick Dasterdly

I see Rajoy is dishing out no end of praise for his magnificent police force and it's obvious he is desperate to keep them well onside.
I think the crux of the whole matter is just how long the police are prepared to be his obedient servants.

It was noticeable yesterday that they seemed reluctant to back up or rescue those of their colleagues who found themselves in a bad situation.

I wonder how the police themselves view the present situation ?
Whilst it may be expected that some of them say I'm alright jack I have a job, there must be others amongst them who see members of their own family especially their kids with no job and little future as well as many of their close friends in similar situations.

IMHO everything depends on them staying together and following strict orders from above. As soon as any cracks start to appear and they begin to sympathise with the masses,then that could be the end, not only for the present govt but also democracy itself for a short while at least until the situation is stabilised possibly by the military.

lurchio

Well, exactly, its all over the Media, and they NEVER lie or misrepresent the facts, do they? As I said, they would rub their hands...............

Again, I am not judging anyone here but lets not adopt the stance taken by some (especially the Media) of never letting the facts get in the way of a good story!

I am sure we are all sorry to see what is happening in our EC 'Community' when we have been used to seeing things like this only in other parts of the World, but we are where we are, and its NOT a nice place at the moment.

HBG

There is a vast difference between policing in the UK and Spain, and such a discussion could take years on any forum such as this.

Maybe a little personal tale will explain a minute part of it.

I was in one of my usual Spanish cafes which is a part of my social life in Spain, when around 20 police officers walked in, although I wasn't sure at first whether they were part of the army, and an elite unit at that.

They weren't, they were riot police based in Madrid, on their way to a demonstration in Alicante, around two years ago, and one of their cousins owned the cafe I was in.

They had left most of their equipment in the large vans parked outside, but even what they wore while drinking their coffee would have frightened the life out of most English people. It was as if they were going to war.

Being a nosy person I left the cafe when they did and caught a brief glimpse of the weapons stored in the large black vans parked outside.

If that lot had been deployed during the Tottenham or any of the other recent riots in the UK, there would have been civilian deaths on the streets. But would as many businesses been destroyed by fire and looted?

I'm in favour of policing by consent, which happens in the UK.

bobd22

Sorry but policing by consent does not mean that the police can't do anything that any individual disagrees with, how on earth could you police in that manner. You speak of the police being unapproachable UK and Spain, there are good and bad police just as there are good and bad in any walk of life. I certainly would have no qualms about approaching the police in either country if I had a problem, I have done so in Spain when my car was broken into. They were a little aloof but were polite and helpful and took the report.

As for the police being tooled up these days and different to 20 years ago. Well if you haven't noticed the world has changed over the last 20 years, more people are armed with weapons these days and prepared to use violence.

Yes some of the young cops do have a strange attitude I think that comes from the recruiting process in place these days. A lot of the problems these days come I', afraid from targets set and liked by the last government. This goes for recruiting to improve the number of particular groups within the police some of this worked some didn't. Many young cops both ale and female do have an arrogant attitude, they come from reasonably well off families who have never wanted for much or seen the other side of life before becoming the police.

As for sentencing following the UK riots well that is not down to the police but the courts I'm afraid. Police deal with offenders and if required put them before a court it is then down to the court to sentence them.

Kettling is an approved tactic used by police to prevent further disorder, damage etc not perfect in all situations but works in many.

To be honest and yes I am an ex cop, but it is easy to criticise when you have never been in the situation that they find themselves in. Good and bad in all walks of life including the police. There are plenty of police doing a good job fairly firmly and without abusing their powers a few don't and usually get found out certainly that is my experience. I am sure that applies also with Spanish police as much as UK.

The Beast

Well take good stock all politcal scum, cos the time has arrived to get done,
What we’re waiting for has at arrived some say, the day of reckoning, time to pay,
Revolution road has arrived at last, the bill is here for lies long past,
We’ll start this war that you can’t win, you can’t, you can’t, you’ve too much sin.
Other will follow and start to talk; others will follow and walk the walk,
Footsteps of giants will cross the land as your pillars of babel turn to sand.

Come the revolution!

lurchio

Just a comment, if you would have called into a Service Area just outside Bristol during the St. Pauls riots you would have seen the same thing, with respect!!!!! 38 riot 'vans' and fully equipped Officers with the equipment to address any escalation, including Firearm use, as I said earlier resolution can involve several levels and it all depends what you are confronted with. Raw truth!