Dick Dasterdly

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/f...s-protest.html

Anyone think that things could turn a bit nasty in the forseeable future ?

One report suggests that another four and a half million will lose their jobs in the next four years.

missile

Frighteningly reminicent of the miner's strikes in 70's

This is well worth a look http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode...ck_to_the_70s/

anonimouse

The problem is, most of the unemployed in Spain, are in fact employed, it's the way it is and how it has always been, claim benefits and work, the Autonomo is too expensive for everyone, so don't trust the figures.

steviedeluxe

Even the official figures showed a 100,000 drop in the unemployed figure for June (a record for that month).
Believe it or not, they are claiming full employment now in the IT development sector. Not sure I'd believe that totally - probably like the UK where they claim they can't get staff, but rule out anyone over a certain age, who doesn't have 5 years experience in a toolset only 3 years old etc etc

bobd22

I think with any figures from a politician no matter where they are from if their lips are moving they are lying

Dick Dasterdly

Whichever way you look at it the prospects look bleak, especially for the 50 percent of under 25s.

However my question is, can the govt and police keep the lid on a worsening situation indefinitely ?

Up till now the Spanish ppl have been amazingly tolerant but I think even they will have a breaking point as things deteriorate further and they become ever more disillusioned regarding their future prospects.

We have seen minor violent reactions already and the fact that Spanish police are quick to wade in with truncheons and rubber has probably helped stop any trouble spreading up until now, but I wonder if more extreme reactions may not be too far away ?

Domino

agree, have seen companies complain they can't get staff for their in-house systems/programs whilst pushing them out of the front door.
In one case the system was over 20yrs old, they were employing nearly all the original development staff as consultants and still complaining they couldnt get enough people - but had a "no training" policy. When the originals die then perhaps they will understand, except they have lost 2 people that way already.

HBG

From what I can gather from the Spanish people I speak to an a daily basis, the miners from up north don't get much sympathy down this way. They realise that the mining industry has been over-subsidised for years and is longer viable.

Much the same as back in the UK 30 years ago.

But in other respects, people are angry with the austerity measures and the cuts in everything, from paro to prescription charges. And bank repossessions of houses drive them mad, and there are a lot of those, invariably leading to local protests.

steviedeluxe

You may get political demos (no worse than we've seen before, but visually shocking) but the Spanish have been here before in the 90s with high unemployment rates.
I believe the prospects are better now than then, more so if they revert back to an independent currency. For instance the rail industry is growing at a good rate, as shown in the Saudi contract last year, and (for example) the Talgo contract just signed with Kazakstan http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...s-reports.html . They are hoping for one of the two big contracts up for tender this summer, in Russia and Brazil, both of a scale that dwarfs the Saudi project. Other industries are gaining too, which is why exports have performed so well. Plus the IT sector is expanding all the time - a perusal of startup news, m&as and funding rounds in June and July should give an indication of that - http://startupspain.com/last-month-or-two-in-spain/ Additionally for the young they have a lot of opportunities to work abroad (and improve their languages) for instance they can look on this site http://www.mundospanish.com/blog/Bol...rnacional.html
I appreciate things are very tight for those with few skills (or skills in the depressed construction sector), but hopefully things will pick up next year as the private sector continues its better performance. Remember I posted this report from L&G?
http://www.thecorner.eu/2012/07/rece...der-2008-lgim/


Things have been very hard, particularly so it seems in the south and in the resort areas, yet we're being told that hotel occupation rates are up since May. Can anyone confirm or repute this?

steviedeluxe

The problem I have with this argument is that back in the 80s, whilst mines were being closed down, the UK was subsidising nuclear power (and also spending billions on a war to protect 2,700 islanders in the south Atlantic). Now you can make the argument that self-defence against an agressor is justified, and also that coal produces dirty energy, and I can accept those arguments. However in the 80s we were told that the mines were being shut for economic reasons (despite the cost of putting whole commuities onto state benefits must surely have had its own cost).

That's why I don't necessarily agree that the Asturian mines should be shut down on purely economic figures - how much has the Spanish state spent on wind and solar energy? How can a redundant Asturian miner find alternative work in his particular valley - it just isn't going to happen. Still at least the Bankia directors got their pay-off bonuses.

cricketman

[QUOTE=steviedeluxe;10168683]You may get political demos (no worse than we've seen before, but visually shocking) but the Spanish have been here before in the 90s with high unemployment rates.
I believe the prospects are better now than then, more so if they revert back to an independent currency[QUOTE]

There is a big difference between now and the 90s

In the 90s people were still thinking that Spain were in transition since Franco - and optimism in Spain was high because things were still gradually improving year on year

This crash has come as a shock to Spaniards. They thought they had made it and were all of a sudden equal to the other EU large economies. And they really thought a poky flat in Barcelona was worth half a million euros...

This has hit them hard and there is no optimism in site. Especially given the way the bankers screwed everyone over. Most Spaniards are socialists at heart

I do finally agree that Spain must leave the Euro. They cannot keep doing what Rajoy announced yesterday, that is a slow road to nowhere.

Lets create a new currency, let inflation get high to inflate the debts away and get on with it. In 5 years time everyone would be happy again and we'd be seeing economic growth

JLFS

The only people who have sympathy for the Ast.miners are those directly involved.

Visiting Langreo and other surrounding villages a short while back, the man on the street who had the threat of losing a job (not miners) were rather aggrieved that when others lose their jobs the miners dont show any solidarity towards then, but because the miners and the unions say so, small business have to close their doors and "support" the strike.

They are told in very clear terms, that they are expected to support the strike and the message is clearly there, that if they dont close there "might" be conseuences.

Some of these places are full of early retired miners whe get a good "tanto" each month.

As for them having problems finding a job, as was suggesting by another poster, that is the last thing they need or want, as then the payment they receive every month would cease.

As H said, very little sympathy for them, I knew of this before, but after speaking to a couple of shop/bar/business owners who have lost takings through "supporting" the strike, I did not realise how against them the locals are.

steviedeluxe

I think you will always get fors and againsts...

according to this blog there was "huge" support for the miners in Madrid. There again, demos in Madrid often have "huge" support, left wing or right wing. It's the old Two Spains syndrome (or perhaps just human nature).

http://forwhatwearetheywillbe.blogsp...upport-of.html

bobd22

I do finally agree that Spain must leave the Euro. They cannot keep doing what Rajoy announced yesterday, that is a slow road to nowhere.

Lets create a new currency, let inflation get high to inflate the debts away and get on with it. In 5 years time everyone would be happy again and we'd be seeing economic growth[/QUOTE]

You are no doubt correct re the Euro and not only for Spain, trouble is though is there any Eurozone country that has enough bottle to tell Germany what to do with the Euro? Look at Greece they bottled it and take the money from Germany. One has to wonder where this will go as even should things pick up down the road a bit Germany is still going to want pay back for bailing out the southern European Countries no free lunch.
There was talk a while ago of 2 speed Euro North South but don't hear much of it now. The Euro certainly seems to be choking these countries, they are already talking in the newspapers that British tourists will shun Spain due to these tax increases. Whether that is true? personally I would think that a lot of Brits have enough problems staying in work and just affording to live to a reasonable standard.

Domino

So today - we have spent £billions in perpetuating a war against people in foreign lands where we are unsure why and if it is all doing any use.
£billions being wasted on a railway line that will cut 3 mins on a journey of approx 100miles but very few will be able to use it.

I didnt agree with the miners actions in the uk and I don't agree with the miners actions in Spain, but at least they have the right to protest and make their point
Our fathers and grandfathers gave their lives to give us all that right - right or wrong, but did they make the ultimate sacrifice to have £/€billions wasted on vanity projects and wars that are not wars.