Even O'Leary couldn't make the AVE profitable!

When is one day?

As I have said before I believe in creating infrastructure but the amount spent on the AVE could have been put to better use.

have u tried 2 use contact media when driving a car?
and you have to turn it all off when on a plane, so you are actually off-grid for 2-3 hours


what you have tried to do is tell us "oldies" that we have given birth to a new "super wunderkind"
and yet really they aren't any brighter, just more and more reliant on little black boxes to do work for them

and that despite but no matter how fast they punch the numbers they have forgotten that accuracy is needed and also an idea of what the end number should look like. hence so many inaccuracies in answers. meanwhile "oldies" can look at a set of numbers and have an idea of what sort of answer they are looking for and be "multi-tasking" by using their dual process brain and have the final number confirmed by a machine.
oh dear, so all the oldies are to be carted off in cattle trucks to the knackers yard - bet even that would be by train.


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You really do exaggerate...............and I have said nothing of the sort.

me ? exaggerate ? Never !

never said nothing of the sort

got to go, must make sure I get a good place on the knackers yard special


kind regards to the OH

Oh for goodness sake. That old "You're too old to know" chestnut again!
I encounter all ages on the Ave. Loads of young musicians, artists writers businessmen and women and interesting people use a form of transport that gives them time to think creatively. Those who when they actually do get to be 'old has beens' will be much happier to have that on their tombstone than to be a young 'never will be' who knows how to text ultra fast and how to 'diss' the people he/she doesn't understand and never will

Ahh we have an economic genius in our midst. Do tell!

Just a shame they didn't have somebody as smart as O'Leary to both plan it and cost it all out and they may have avoided the catastrophe that much of it is already proving to be.

It must be remembered that O'Leary can and does switch routes at the drop of a hat in order to remain profitable whilst in total contrast AVE have built stations and routes costing Billions, many in the middle of nowhere, that are already being abandoned due to lack of use and atrocious planning and can never be any other but a total loss.

"Envy of the world" hardly. The system is likely to be obsolete long before completion having already been in use in Germany for well over twenty years with development elsewhere such as in Japan already making it look like old hat.

As for the punters eventually turning up, ......well not according to the experts, with present stats from routes it has been running for a while showing that the exact opposite is the case.

Once the novelty value and initial excitement wears off, which looking at the long faces and protests on the last opening has already done so, the available figures from earlier routes show a distinct drop off in numbers within approx. two years, with punters presumably going back to whatever mode of travel is most convenient and cost effective in their own areas.

Even considering the best scenario projected figures, it can never run anywhere close to being profitable, at best only carrying a fraction of the numbers who regularly use the French, German and Japanese systems.

In short, a catastrophe of the highest magnitude with close on 50 Billion already down the plughole and likely to rise to 80 Billion plus, all to write off in addition to daily losses.

Little wonder that much of the Spanish general public who will be struggling through the crisis for years ahead are disgusted that funds they could surely have put to much better use are still being thrown into a virtually bottomless pit.

To compare OLeary and Ryanair with the rail link is a non starter.

As you point out, Ryanair´s business plan, can be changed at the drop of a hat, routes can be cancelled and others opened according to the travel habits of the customers.

As soon as a route becomes unprofitable or charges are increase, OLeary waves hasta luego, with the minimum of fuss.

Not so with an unprofitable or little used rail service, not so easy to alter it to the public supply and demand.

Good post.

You do not have to be a genius, just realistic.

then where were you with your know it all attitude when the first line was inaugurated on 14 April 1992 to coincide with Expo 92 being held in Seville. Seven days later on 21 April 1992 commercial service began with six daily services stopping at Madrid, Seville, Córdoba, Puertollano and Ciudad Real. In October 1992 RENFE began the AVE Lanzadera service between Madrid and Puertollano and Ciudad Real.

once the die was cast the project has to run through to completion, it would be madness to stop all the partially prepared lines, such as the Valencia-Antequerra via Granada.

It is easy to be a genius after the event, it is easy to jump on an anti-rail bandwagon when the country is endeavouring to keep the project going and keep people employed rather than lay off thousands of direct and indirect workers involved in the project.
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I am neither a genius or anti-rail.
All I am saying is those thousands of people laid off (resources) could be employed on expanding other transport projects, road and rail, that would, in my opinion (if you would allow me to have one), be more beneficial.
In the region that I have a house there is no coastal rail link from Alicante through Benidorm/Denia and on to Gandia thus providing a link from Alicante to Valencia via a coastal rail route. This, in my opinion, would be a better use of resources. I also suspect that this region is not alone in currently being under-served by rail.
Is yours?

Johnny, you are entitled to have an opinion, in exactly the same way as i do - although one or two want to shut me down on this matter.

yes my region is underserved by rail, although I do have the privelege (?) of having to put up with the roadworks relating to the new AVE line construction - which will eventually link up with the east coast, but no work has started that I have seen. At the moment we have enough problems with 2 alternative stations, one of which involving massive disruptions, digging holes and tunnels. However, the local council leader has now come down on the side of regenerating the existing station - a move towards sanity, which will help to regenerate a partially neglected area of the city centre that is already comitted to having a metro stop.

The problem is not just Spain's, but an EU problem. This is due to their transport policy which is funding large swathes of rail build as part of transport re-generation, for the movement of freight as well as people.
So, if the EU was the prime mover/funder it is probably unlikely there would be the AVE.
However, it is left to the individual country's of the EU to fund road building and repairs.

Living in London you have the luxury of a number of railway stations, connected by underground, with lines radiating out from the hub. As you get further away from that hub you will find that more and more people are disgruntled about the money spent on rail whilst they want the potholes fixed in their village. Just like Spain.

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That's not answering the question. What are these other uses for the money which will create more growth, jobs etc?

I have to agree with you there.

The desperate need for a coastal link from Alicante to Valencia taking in the busy coastal towns and resorts in between, is something that has stood out like a sore thumb to my way of thinking ever since I moved into the area.

It's so ridiculous when they are throwing money down the plughole on pointless vanity projects which in most cases aren't even needed and often remain virtually unused.