Rotor

To many people live in a very fluffy world , someone once said "Those who object to violence can only do so because others are committing violence on their behalf" which is not far wrong , under Taliban law most would not be expressing any opinion.

cricketman

That's a silly example. The Taliban are a reaction to many violent invasions by the West into Afghanistan and the surrounding areas

Violence breeds violence

amideislas

I'd agree with that, but I'd also agree with rotor, because all of us - in our little cocoons of safety, provided by the very system which many of us seem to despise, have absolutely no conception of the brutality and violation of the most basic human rights that's a completely accepted way of life for those who we aspire to resist. These are not rational people, and they are very very dangerous. Besides, what should we do? Give them financial support so they can expand their neanderthal ideology? No doubt you'd be the first in line to rally against that (unless of course it was dreamt up by the lefties).

Somehow, I have trouble with the notion that sitting back and dismissing it all will somehow solve it. But then again, complete dismissal seems to be a familiar strategy these days, doesn't it? "I have more important problems". I recently saw a woman on the beeb news saying something like "The government are going to make me leave my 3-bedroom council flat in central London just because I live alone. If that's not a violation of my basic rights, what is?" Terrible times, I tell ya. Terrible times....

cricketman

Why do you keep going on about the entitlement of a minority of people in the UK?

This has little to do with the rest of the world and certainly has nothing to do with Spain where people are "entitled" to next to nothing

I am not an advocate of the British system either past or present. I believe in "free" state run education, health and utilities and the capping of maximum salaries/bonuses to a multiple of the minimum wage (say 10-20 times) - but I do not believe that people should be given stuff for doing nothing, neither should people be paid a fortune for doing a basic job

As regards The Taliban and the likes, its an almost impossible situation now to deal with, but most of the chaos around the world has been caused by colonialism and empire-ism and the associated "legalised robbery" and free trade capitalism that accompanied it

A sustainable world is the answer, although there are no easy paths to get there!

davidinspain

Business as usual your correct.Sadly though I think it's an instinct that is common and all too easily awoken in many http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-21855388

rugbymatt

No it isn't! God man, could you not even do a quick Google before you posted? The Taliban started out of a combined hatred for the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan, the west actually supplied them with money, training and weaponry. Much of the training was provided by Pakistan, in particular the Pakistani special forces and their secret services, hence the problem separating the to entities now.

rugbymatt

Oh and as to the comment someone posted about training young men to kill then hoping they do the right thing... absolutely spot on fella, that is exactly what the problem is, you CANNOT put a gun in a young mans hands, train him to kill then put him among savages and animals and expect him to play the Honorable Knight!!! He will turn into whatever he is expected to, regardless of his education!

As an Army brat I have watched first hand the damage done by intense warfare on young men.

cricketman

I always think of Russia as the West. They have European roots/culutre etc, are they not? The point remains though

amideislas

Well, I was only pointing out that one reason why people like you can be so sympathetic of an ideology which aspires to conduct insane brutality on anyone who doesn't conform their extremist views, is simply because we live in an increasingly comfortable world where we are patently unable to conceive the brutality and human rights abuses this type of extremism embraces. Ironically, the shelter and comfort we enjoy is the result of precisely that which you despise.

Nonetheless, if Pakistan suffered a coup d' etat and the Taliban took control, instituted extreme sharia law, ended up launching a few nukes at India, and few around the region, I'd bet you'd be the first in line to rally against whoever is to blame for not stopping it. Yet in the same breath, people of your bent would also claim that simply leaving them alone is the right thing to do.

Now, I'll readily admit that we haven't yet figured out how to stop brutal regimes like this without horrible bloodshed. War is always the least desirable strategy, and its legacy and effects carry on for generations after the wars cease. It should always be a last resort - in all cases.

But somehow I'd suspect you'd be one of the first in line to rally a battle cry about why nobody is doing anything about Syria (or perhaps you feel Assad has every right. It's his dictatorship, after all). The Assad government is summarily murdering its people - with impunity. I think this is the first time in recent memory that we've managed to sit back an let such extreme brutality take its course (and surprisingly little has been rallied against it in the west - likely because we'd prefer not to hear about it, we have our own problems). We'll see how that turns out.

Early indications show that so far, it's very, very bad. But the international community has had just about enough now. Still, I reckon that if any military action is ever taken against Assad, the mass protests will begin shortly afterward. And no doubt you'll be right there with them.

Rotor

This is the main problem .

Pocaloca

Meanwhile back in Spain, the Defence Ministry has accepted the torture video is genuine, and court proceedings are starting. But just as with Abu Graib they are absolving the senior officers of any blame, and are concentrating on identifying the individual soldiers in the video.

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/03/20/...97_705852.html

rugbymatt

Its not...

amideislas

Well, I reckon it depends on your point of view. For some in this world, shooting a little girl in the face because she aspires to achieve an education is a perfectly rational and fair punishment for such crimes against allah.

But as long as you are hell-bent on believing our system is the worst the world has to offer, I suppose you could embrace any ideology, including that one. And that, I'd argue, is the problem.

cricketman

It's not so black and white. Culturally, Russia is thought of as part of the Western World as I thought. During the Cold War, for political reasons they were ostrified

"From a cultural and sociological approach the Western world is defined as including all cultures that are directly derived from and influenced by European cultures, i.e. western Europe (i.e. France, the UK, Ireland), central Europe (i.e. Germany, Poland, Switzeland), northern Europe (i.e. Sweden, Denmark, Finland), eastern Europe (Russia, Ukraine, Belarus), southeastern Europe (i.e. Bulgaria, Greece, Romania) and southern (or southwestern) Europe (i.e. Spain, Italy, Portugal), United States of America and Canada, (Latin America - i.e. Argentina, Brazil, Chile, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Mexico, Panama, Peru and Venezuela), Australia and New Zealand. Together these countries constitute Western society."

Thankyou wikipedia

Retired in Euskadi

The Taliban movement took shape in 1994. They are Pashtun (ie roughly 45% of the Afghan population), who had ruled Afghanistan for over 300 years, but of late they have lost out somewhat to other Afghan ethnic groups such as those of the north (Dari speaking, similar to Persian). The Taliban have revived Pashtun hopes of dominating Afghanistan.
Their interpretation of Sharia law is one of the strictest in the world; hence they are supported by Saudi Arabia & Pakistan. their opponents tend to be supported by Iran, Russia, Turkey & the surrounding "stan" republics.

The Russians who invaded in 1979 & the British in the 19th century, together with the current Western alliance is merely seen as foreigners interfering.