Dick Dasterdly

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/03/17/...10_534617.html

There's been some horrific clips of this affair shown on some Spanish TV news channels the last few hours, as bad as anything I've ever seen with regard to Iraq.

I get the impression it may now have been censored.
The clip in this link certainly has been and doesn't really show anything at all, nor in the Spanish version of El Pais either.

Can't say I'm surprised if it has been, it was really shocking by any standards.
Wonder if anyone else watched it on Spanish news ?

Having just seen the TV news again, it's definitely been toned down quite a bit there, as well now.

Rotor

More assault than torture as I dont think they were trying to obtain information , if youd just watched your mates vaporise in an IED you may well want to do the same or worse, during basic training we received similar beatings from corporals who were on our side! ,they often resulted in hospital visits

Dick Dasterdly

I don't agree. It certainly appeared to be much much more than assault and simple revenge. I can only guess that the reason they used such unusual and obnoxious extreme torture methods was to obtain information.

However one thing it has proved to me, that I already strongly suspected is that censorship is definitely alive and well here in Spain.

The shocking scenes disappeared from viewing almost as quickly as they had appeared and wether they were even shown in full graphic horrendous detail in the first place on National channels, I know not, as I watched it on the main Valenciano channel before it disappeared as quickly as it had arrived.

Pocaloca

The video was "leaked" to El Pais and is still there on El Pais website if anyone wants to be put off their lunch.

They showed clips from it on the Noticias 24 channel on Sunday, and it was in other Spanish papers too.

It's currently being investigated by the defence department to see whether it is genuine. Of course, the Spanish soldiers were working alongside the British and American troops in 2004, so they probably used the same interrogation methods, and worse. The then president of Spain, José María Aznar, was a big buddy of Bush and Blair.

davidinspain

Can't really see what the fuss is about.We train young men and women (usually and I stress usually) the least educated, to be killers then complain when they aren't sure when to stop.

Rotor

Scared there will be a heli hovering over your back yard?

Pocaloca

The "fuss" is because it shows actions which are prohibited in the Spanish code of conduct for handling prisoners, presumably based on the Geneva convention. It's particularly sensitive here because of the things that went on during and after the civil war. I don't think there will be a deliberate cover-up as Dick is suggesting, at least I hope not.

Dick Dasterdly

A deliberate cover-up is one thing.
Censorship for what may or may not be justifiable reasons another.
After all,it's a bit late for a cover up after so many people have seen the footage, assuming it's genuine of course.

Pocaloca

It was only a 40-second video in the first place so not much of it can have been cut, if indeed it was. Spanish TV isn't for the squeamish at the best of times, they way they show bits of body parts etc at road accident scenes!

Dick Dasterdly

The scenes that were shown in those 40 secs, if that's what it was, were more than enough for me !

I've seen a few shots and brief clips on various news channels today, but nothing quite as horrific as what was shown last night, so I presume most of the channels are censoring at least some of it for whatever reason.

Rotor

Not a very educated response , many who serve are uni graduates , many go on to be very successful in industry, medicine, security and so on , what have you achieved to make you such a smart cookie?

davidinspain

You may have missed the fact that I stressed usually as I am aware that the Spanish armed forces does have graduates in it's ranks.As for me,we live in a world where my Ph.D. is of little value.

Rotor

So why did you take an obsolete subject ?

davidinspain

I was being slightly ironic,but the main point of my post was the surprise that society shows when the overt violence we expect from soldiers in the field changes to something else.

Pocaloca

Oh I agree totally - they are brainwashed (sorry, trained) to be violent and amoral in order to persuade them to kill strangers. I don't think that's a natural human instinct, regardless of what social class you come from or your educational background.

I expect the outcome of this will be that they punish a scapegoat or two, like that American woman at Abu Graib, then things will just carry on as usual.