Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
#16
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Spain's current economic crisis is very sad because the country has so much potential. The Spanish economy still retains a diversity that the UK's economy hasn't had in years. In the UK, we rely almost solely on the banking sector, if that decides to leave London for Zurich, New York or Hong Kong, this country is in deep shit.
And that's not such an unlikely prospect as it may first appear. If the EU enforces a financial tax on EU financial centres, that is the City finished overnight.
If the financial centre did leave the UK - which is a threat, then of course that would hit the country tremendously
Spain are suffering because they are indebted to other countries and being part of the Euro means they have absolutely no power to decide what to do about it. It has also hit them harder because they were over-reliant on the construction sector, both for government income (in 2005 50% of government income was in the form of property sales tax) and for unskilled/semi-skilled employment
#17
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Opinions are like arseholes eh? Everyone has one....
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...on-imf-warning
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...spain-economy/
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...on-imf-warning
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...spain-economy/
I am saying that yearly GDP will not grow at a decent rate for the next 10-20 years and job prospects, debt levels and money lending will pretty much continue as they are now, maybe with some slight improvements as confidence grows that the country will not go bankrupt i.e. look at Japan
#18
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
I have always felt that with good governance and hard work Spain has the potential to out-preform the UK.
Even with the financial crisis, Spain still retains a far greater industrial base than the UK does, its agricultural production is much larger than that of Britain and the fact the population density is much lower means that they will never be short of space in the forseeable future, whereas it is quite possible that the UK will be short of space in the next few decades.
Also, Spanish infrastructure is far superior to British infrastructure. The road network is in far better condition and the railway network is also decades ahead of anything the UK has.
Even with the financial crisis, Spain still retains a far greater industrial base than the UK does, its agricultural production is much larger than that of Britain and the fact the population density is much lower means that they will never be short of space in the forseeable future, whereas it is quite possible that the UK will be short of space in the next few decades.
Also, Spanish infrastructure is far superior to British infrastructure. The road network is in far better condition and the railway network is also decades ahead of anything the UK has.
But some manage to do better than others. Spain and most of the EU are demonstrably not in that category. And with the majority of the politicians and public servants in Spain having engaged in criminal activities, I'd have to believe they will ultimately be more interested in what's in it for them than what's in it for Spain.
Spain's current economic crisis is very sad because the country has so much potential. The Spanish economy still retains a diversity that the UK's economy hasn't had in years. In the UK, we rely almost solely on the banking sector, if that decides to leave London for Zurich, New York or Hong Kong, this country is in deep shit.
And that's not such an unlikely prospect as it may first appear. If the EU enforces a financial tax on EU financial centres, that is the City finished overnight.
And that's not such an unlikely prospect as it may first appear. If the EU enforces a financial tax on EU financial centres, that is the City finished overnight.
#19
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
There's some truth in that, but at the moment, as the UK is a massive financial centre then they effectively hand out the beans, meaning they have a lot of power
If the financial centre did leave the UK - which is a threat, then of course that would hit the country tremendously
Spain are suffering because they are indebted to other countries and being part of the Euro means they have absolutely no power to decide what to do about it. It has also hit them harder because they were over-reliant on the construction sector, both for government income (in 2005 50% of government income was in the form of property sales tax) and for unskilled/semi-skilled employment
If the financial centre did leave the UK - which is a threat, then of course that would hit the country tremendously
Spain are suffering because they are indebted to other countries and being part of the Euro means they have absolutely no power to decide what to do about it. It has also hit them harder because they were over-reliant on the construction sector, both for government income (in 2005 50% of government income was in the form of property sales tax) and for unskilled/semi-skilled employment
#20
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Over the last year the IBEX has done well c 24%. Would have been a good investment!
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/IBEX:IND
Jon
http://www.bloomberg.com/quote/IBEX:IND
Jon
#21
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
I used to have high hopes that the recession, both here in the UK and in a wider Europe would help level people out, make them less materialistic and shiny object obsessed but sadly it hasn't worked, it's also turned politicians into even nastier lying bastards, they are all more interested in pointing out each others weak points and failings rather than focus on the people they actually work for. We will all come out of the recession exactly when the corporations and Uber Rich want us to be, nothing else will matter, it's when they want us to return to financial health that we will recover and it's sad that we all just sit back and let them... me included.
The recession didn't change that nor enhance it. Difficult to become successful as a politician in Europe, and especially Spain or Italy or Greece... without actively engaging in preferential treatment of the special interests that keep it all running.
Just look at the current news and resulting discussions. Surely, you don't really believe it's for the "common good" that Spain imposes harsh penalties for self-generated energy, for example? And that's just a small one...
#22
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
European politicians have always been self-serving in the interest of the "common good". Our system simply favours it. Lots of power, little accountability.
The recession didn't change that nor enhance it. Difficult to become successful as a politician in Europe, and especially Spain or Italy or Greece... without actively engaging in preferential treatment of the special interests that keep it all running.
Just look at the current news and resulting discussions. Surely, you don't really believe it's for the "common good" that Spain imposes harsh penalties for self-generated energy, for example? And that's just a small one...
The recession didn't change that nor enhance it. Difficult to become successful as a politician in Europe, and especially Spain or Italy or Greece... without actively engaging in preferential treatment of the special interests that keep it all running.
Just look at the current news and resulting discussions. Surely, you don't really believe it's for the "common good" that Spain imposes harsh penalties for self-generated energy, for example? And that's just a small one...
#23
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,368
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Opinions are like arseholes eh? Everyone has one....
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...on-imf-warning
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...spain-economy/
http://www.theguardian.com/business/...on-imf-warning
http://www.rte.ie/news/business/2013...spain-economy/
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/08/09/...html?rel=rosEP
#24
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
I wonder where the militant element has gone in European politics. I take your point and I do agree, I was just being a little wistful about a change in politics, but the real change has been in peoples attitudes. When you think of the idealism that drove so much in Europe, from the NHS to the riots in the 60's in Paris there is none of that anymore. Right or wrong I think it's sorely missed in politics.
The NHS is a pretty good tranquiliser. So are other generous benefits that people aren't obliged to contribute to in order to receive. As long as we're fat, dumb and happy, we can turn a blind eye. "not my problem" (as the pocketbook gets thinner and thinner).
#25
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
And only 2 weeks ago El PaĆs was telling us there was no sign of recovery in the Spanish industrial sector, June was the 22nd consecutive month that industrial output fell. Dead cat bounce?
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/08/09/...html?rel=rosEP
http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/08/09/...html?rel=rosEP
#26
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 487
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Spain only has the infrastructure that it has because the EU paid for it. Now the golden goose has stopped paying out it will go back to what it was before it joined the EU. Don't remember it being a powerhouse of economic generation then.
#27
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 178
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
http://fr.ria.ru/tribune/20130916/199313072.html
worth reading or translating
idea: keep a "common"(not a unique one, as it is now) European currency but restore older currencies.
southern States would see serious growth thereafter.
this guy is a very respected French economist.
no bs there. there's no alternative for the southern States.
worth reading or translating
idea: keep a "common"(not a unique one, as it is now) European currency but restore older currencies.
southern States would see serious growth thereafter.
this guy is a very respected French economist.
no bs there. there's no alternative for the southern States.
#28
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Since the British journalist/gloomster Jeremy Warner told Brits to pull money out of Spain in March, the Ibex has risen over 20% (by comparison the FTSE barely broke even).
This is why you should not listen to the doomsters. They have no crystal ball.
#29
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
The Spanish Ibex is now up 67.9% since its low point of 5,956.30 of last year (24th July 2012)
Since the British journalist/gloomster Jeremy Warner told Brits to pull money out of Spain in March, the Ibex has risen over 20% (by comparison the FTSE barely broke even).
This is why you should not listen to the doomsters. They have no crystal ball.
Since the British journalist/gloomster Jeremy Warner told Brits to pull money out of Spain in March, the Ibex has risen over 20% (by comparison the FTSE barely broke even).
This is why you should not listen to the doomsters. They have no crystal ball.
Statistics
#30
Re: Spain's export boom and economy bouncing back
Of course if you failed to get out of stocks (or property) pre-crisis 7 years ago, that's a different matter.