cricketman

There's some truth in that, but at the moment, as the UK is a massive financial centre then they effectively hand out the beans, meaning they have a lot of power

If the financial centre did leave the UK - which is a threat, then of course that would hit the country tremendously

Spain are suffering because they are indebted to other countries and being part of the Euro means they have absolutely no power to decide what to do about it. It has also hit them harder because they were over-reliant on the construction sector, both for government income (in 2005 50% of government income was in the form of property sales tax) and for unskilled/semi-skilled employment

cricketman

I'm not saying Spain will be in recession for the next 10-20 years, that would be impossible as it would require a decrease in GDP every quarter for years upon years

I am saying that yearly GDP will not grow at a decent rate for the next 10-20 years and job prospects, debt levels and money lending will pretty much continue as they are now, maybe with some slight improvements as confidence grows that the country will not go bankrupt i.e. look at Japan

amideislas

All countries everywhere have the opportunity to prosper. Politics and the public too oft get in the way of making good decisions. Besides, power without accountability always corrupts.

But some manage to do better than others. Spain and most of the EU are demonstrably not in that category. And with the majority of the politicians and public servants in Spain having engaged in criminal activities, I'd have to believe they will ultimately be more interested in what's in it for them than what's in it for Spain.


I'd argue that if the EU enforces a financial tax on EU financial centers, it not only means the UK's almost guaranteed exit from the EU, but arguably puts an end to Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam...

rugbymatt

I used to have high hopes that the recession, both here in the UK and in a wider Europe would help level people out, make them less materialistic and shiny object obsessed but sadly it hasn't worked, it's also turned politicians into even nastier lying bastards, they are all more interested in pointing out each others weak points and failings rather than focus on the people they actually work for. We will all come out of the recession exactly when the corporations and Uber Rich want us to be, nothing else will matter, it's when they want us to return to financial health that we will recover and it's sad that we all just sit back and let them... me included.

agoreira

The Footsie hasn't done too bad either, up 26.26% over the last 2 years, and for me, that has been an excellent investment.

amideislas

European politicians have always been self-serving in the interest of the "common good". Our system simply favours it. Lots of power, little accountability.

The recession didn't change that nor enhance it. Difficult to become successful as a politician in Europe, and especially Spain or Italy or Greece... without actively engaging in preferential treatment of the special interests that keep it all running.

Just look at the current news and resulting discussions. Surely, you don't really believe it's for the "common good" that Spain imposes harsh penalties for self-generated energy, for example? And that's just a small one...

rugbymatt

I wonder where the militant element has gone in European politics. I take your point and I do agree, I was just being a little wistful about a change in politics, but the real change has been in peoples attitudes. When you think of the idealism that drove so much in Europe, from the NHS to the riots in the 60's in Paris there is none of that anymore. Right or wrong I think it's sorely missed in politics.

agoreira

And only 2 weeks ago El País was telling us there was no sign of recovery in the Spanish industrial sector, June was the 22nd consecutive month that industrial output fell. Dead cat bounce?

http://elpais.com/elpais/2013/08/09/...html?rel=rosEP

amideislas

Tranquilisers?

The NHS is a pretty good tranquiliser. So are other generous benefits that people aren't obliged to contribute to in order to receive. As long as we're fat, dumb and happy, we can turn a blind eye. "not my problem" (as the pocketbook gets thinner and thinner).

rugbymatt

Brilliant isn't it?

rspltd

Spain only has the infrastructure that it has because the EU paid for it. Now the golden goose has stopped paying out it will go back to what it was before it joined the EU. Don't remember it being a powerhouse of economic generation then.

sam54140

http://fr.ria.ru/tribune/20130916/199313072.html
worth reading or translating
idea: keep a "common"(not a unique one, as it is now) European currency but restore older currencies.
southern States would see serious growth thereafter.
this guy is a very respected French economist.
no bs there. there's no alternative for the southern States.

steviedeluxe

The Spanish Ibex is now up 67.9% since its low point of 5,956.30 of last year (24th July 2012)
Since the British journalist/gloomster Jeremy Warner told Brits to pull money out of Spain in March, the Ibex has risen over 20% (by comparison the FTSE barely broke even).
This is why you should not listen to the doomsters. They have no crystal ball.

Fredbargate

The Ibex stands at 64% of the pre crisis price, the FTSE stands at 98.5%
Statistics

steviedeluxe

Yep, but the reply was to Aggy's boast of 26% in the last 2 years - The Spanish Ibex is up 67% in just over a year.
Of course if you failed to get out of stocks (or property) pre-crisis 7 years ago, that's a different matter.