DLC

This year it'll just be for Qatar, at the end of the year. More middle eastern countries at the beginning of next year. Electronic Travel Authorisation (ETA)

But as the Home Office have just tendered a new borders contract to Cap Gemini, there's every chance it'll be delayed.

DLC

That's the NLV isn't it?

Red Eric

The NLV is a residence visa, which is applied for from abroad.

I was thinking more along the lines of an extension that could be applied for in country, not amounting to formal residence and the obligations that implies.

Ronnyone

Bear in mind that Brexit- mad UK initially detained some Spanish people for entering the country for suspected infringements of immigration. There was a young Spanish girl locked up for a night despite having the right to enter uk and also the father of a Spanish student who went to visit his daughter. The UK has been much stricter about applying their rules to EU persons so I am all for Spain treating UK nats the same.

dave7777

I find it hard to believe the UK are being strict about applying rules for EU nationals, and don't forget, EU nationals get 180/360 in the UK as apposed to 90/180

Red Eric

I don't see why anybody wouldn't believe the UK is enforcing its own rules strictly.

That aside, EU (and other) natonals don't get 180/360. They get up to 180 days per visit, which is significantly different.

dave7777

They don't even stamp passports in or out, so how can they effectively enforce that rule? 180 days per visit or 180/360 is far more than the EU gives UK citizens though isn't it?

rbs_gb

Stamping of the passport nowadays is primarily for your benefit and to provide a simple visual check of movements, but it is not the main border control. UK and EU have eBorders, with the transport carriers feeding back your API into the government systems.

The passport should be stamped if it is required. Here is the link to the UK governments requirements on carriers, land sea or air.

https://www.gov.uk/government/collec...er-information

EDIT: I'll say it before anyone asks, I have no idea how channel swimmers are controlled.......... and of course, there are no shortage of small boats in Dover waiting to go back across the channel either!

Barriej

Not just EU nationals in fact almost all countries nationals can stay in the UK for 180/360 and this has been in law for many years. In the 70's and 80' thats why there were loads of Aussies in London...
There are countries with agreements with Spain for longer periods BUT these all predate the EU or the FOM acts.

If I had been in Government on 1/1/21 I would have opened the UK borders to all Commonwealth country nationals to come and work in the fields and factories if they wanted too, to replace the EU nationals who didn't bother to become resident and fled home. (allegedly)

The only reason it stopped is due to the FOM act and the UK had to scale back the amount of non EU citizens it allowed in......
The thing with the Uk is though its residency rules are complex and this can catch people out.

I cant see how Spain could alter the 90/180 as its a Schengen ruling and what would stop you from coming here for a couple of months, driving to France and as long as you exited Spain you would be OK.
Nope cant see it happening and I dont think it should either. Doesn't Spain have this rule (law) that after being here more than 90 days you must apply for residency??? How you going to get round that???
Oh just as the Dutch, German etc do (and Uk citizens before Brexit). Dont bother.. We have a French couple who live in the village, they have been here 10 years, never go back to France, dont have a house in France, ITV their French reg car here and pay no tax except the non residence (he reckons they are better off by a couple of thousand euro a year this way).
They are not the only ones either, we know of at least ten other couples of various nationalities who do the same.

One of my long running gripes with the EU is the lack of standards across countries. It bills itself as one nation (trying to bully the Olympics into allowing its flag) etc and devising ways to be inclusive and being allowed by all its members to pass laws and rules but then for each country to then just ignore the bits they dont like.
It always seemed to me that the UK was one of the only members who actually took the EU laws and incorporated them into its laws, the others (Germany) etc only used the bits that would be of benefit to them.
I worked in a factory in Furstenau for a few years and part of the building was left unfinished, because a grant from the EU was given to all companies who wanted to expand their factory space. This had been left partly finished but occupied for over 10 years so they could get the grant. They had never been audited, the money just appeared every year in their bank account...
Technicolor (the filmed in company owned by UK Carlton Communication) had a factory in Eindhoven and this was the same (I was the engineering supervisor there for a few years) our workshop and stores were in this part of the building and the roof was a tarp and it was cold in the winter...

I doubt that even the ETIAS system or whatever will stop undocumented people, it will slow some down but it wont take long to get round it..
And like most things the EU have decided to do it keeps getting delayed, it should have been up and running by 2021 its been delayed due to the contractor saying its not been possible to implement it fully. This has happened twice now.

BUT there is a system now but its not being implemented, a simple potato stamp with a date in and a date out on the same page is not rocket science or are these border guards overworked and under paid, illiterate, dont care, had orders not to bother, football team won/lost/drew, there is no cheese in my sandwich ????.. You get my drift. Its simple just do it....

And will Spain just not bother with ETIAS like they are not bothering now just to allow a few people in and out to spend their meagre pensions????

my 2c and as the paint has dried on my latest artwork that wont sell.. Im off for a cup of tea and to do the next bit......

Red Eric

I don't know how its enforced but if the border agency suspect you're effectively living in the UK or that you have motives for being there which aren't open to you as a visitor, they can, and do, refuse entry.

Yes, 180 days per visit is more than the EU gives 3rd country citizens. I'm not sure what the relevance of that is, though.

dave7777

While being correct, Spain's Extranjera system is seriously not fit for purpose within those rules. I came here in Nov last year, as an EU citizen, i tried from December to get an appointment for residency of an EU national in Valencia, i got an appointment in my area for April 2023. 6 months after i came here, so, how is it possible to apply for residency when there are no appointments available? Then tried everyday to get my TIE card ( fingerprints etc) appointment for a month, numerous times a day, eventually getting an appointment 30 miles away from where i live (still in Valencia) Ridiculous. There rules seem unachievable. Why doesnt the EU do something about that?

dave7777

The relevance is that rules are not reciprocated. Personally I think the UK should change the law for EU nationals to reciprocate the EU system of 90/180
Should have been agreed in any withdrawal agreement

DLC

The UK is not in a position to reciprocate. There aren't enough border force agents to stamp passports on the way in or enough space in airports to hold the queue, and there aren't exit stamps.

Perhaps when ETA comes online it might be possible to do this, or perhaps maybe that'll be something for after ETA.

dave7777

Perhaps that's something that should change them, more border staff, needs a serious investment and restructuring

rbs_gb

According to Border Control 2022 annual stats the following are the EU Nationals that were turned away when they tried to enter the UK. In the jargon, "turned away at the port of entry"

Romania 6798
Bulgaria 1470
Poland 753
Albania 573
Portugal 573
Spain 558
France 499

EDIT Border control is more about stopping undesirables coming in. Any overstayers leaving of their own free will are classified "voluntary return" and in most cases, will not suffer any immediate consequences. They are most likely to be flagged and persistent/grave offenders are turned away when they try to re-enter.