Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Mar 19th 2013, 1:15 pm
#46
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 4,548
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
I really cannot believe that anyone is seriously suggesting that buying a property in Spain today is a good thing. You can play about all day with figures and percentages but at the end of that day remember you are in Spain. These people can do whatever they like to your property and your investments.
And as to the poster who thinks that Spain will start to recover this spring…
And as to the poster who thinks that Spain will start to recover this spring…
Mar 19th 2013, 3:06 pm
#47
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Latest rumour (on ITV News) is that savers with less than 20Keuros will be spared.
Mar 19th 2013, 3:39 pm
#48
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
That's not my understanding of the situation
How could the Spanish economy recover when it has only seen investment slashed and austerity imposed, it never was the plan. The goal is to make Spain competitive through wage decreases (cheaper labour) and lower overheads (cuts to healthcare and education)
The goal of austerity is to make life for Spaniards worse so they will work for less. A goal like that will take 10-20 years to start growing the economy, actually if it ever will.
As for bank runs, yes it could happen in Spain - and yes it could happen in the UK. Although in the UK it is more likely that peoples savings get "stolen" through a combination of high inflation and low savings rates i.e. by printing money
How could the Spanish economy recover when it has only seen investment slashed and austerity imposed, it never was the plan. The goal is to make Spain competitive through wage decreases (cheaper labour) and lower overheads (cuts to healthcare and education)
The goal of austerity is to make life for Spaniards worse so they will work for less. A goal like that will take 10-20 years to start growing the economy, actually if it ever will.
As for bank runs, yes it could happen in Spain - and yes it could happen in the UK. Although in the UK it is more likely that peoples savings get "stolen" through a combination of high inflation and low savings rates i.e. by printing money
For the sake of argument, we have a few hundred billion in revenue. But the public wants lots of spending on all kinds of worthy causes, so we all end up spending double our means... ...for decades.
Then, as reality strikes, politicians are faced with cutting back on all the spending we believe we must have (which is political suicide), or find another way out.
The problem is a very slippery slope. We keep piling on the spending to satisfy a public who already live amongst the highest standard in the world, yet believe they are amongst the most victimised (because every political party not currently in power continuously tells us we're victims in their quest to regain power from the other).
The easy way out is to print money to reduce debt and stimulate economic activity through exports (due to falling currency values) and so on... But it has to be very carefully balanced, or else it will backfire.
Really, virtually every economy inevitably implements QE in hard times, but the Eurozone is only now beginning to realise it should have implemented far more aggressive QE long ago. A bit too late, but I reckon there will be more QE soon.
Arguably, the more "responsible" way is to impose austerity on the population in an effort to pay back some of our debts accrued as a result of our social euphoria in times of prosperity, which ironically, only victimises the population even more. It forces the population into a downward economic spiral in an effort to reduce debt, by taking it from public coffers (both public and private in the form of reduced benefits & services while imposing higher taxes), which the population has become so highly dependent upon in a social democracy such as ours. We end up paying more, getting less, and that becomes the new norm, and it's highly counter-productive.
Austerity only further dampens economic growth, and doesn't cut spending at all, in fact, more people end up consuming benefits afforded to them in our social democracy, so spending actually goes up whilst tax revenues fall, and the poor get poorer and rich actually get richer. This is where we are now.
Problem not solved, only "revised" to a different set of headaches.
The political implications are... well, pretty bad. No politician or party will ever enjoy majority public support in such times, especially if they adopt the austerity route. They will all be widely regarded as thieves, no matter what.
So, if you stand in a politicians' shoes for a moment, you might see things from a vastly different perspective - even if you believe your entire career is completely dedicated to the interests of the public, which ironically, are pretty selfish and rarely consistent with best interests of the economy.
So, as our in-house expert on all things, I reckon you'd prefer to blame bank fraud as the sole reason for our economic condition. It's not our fault, or government overspending as a result of public demand to spend (and just a word of advice, before you get your shorts in a twist, just remember previous posts of yours are indeed a matter of record :-)
Good boy. You're buying exactly what they are selling you. Deflecting blame so that you are less likely to engage in revolt at the notion of them taking more and more of your hard earned capital, whilst giving you less in return, rationalised by the need to satisfy the unsustainable debt we've all been accruing for the past few decades (through no fault of ours - the banks forced us into it), and will continue to accrue to satisfy our lust for less work, higher pay, and more benefits than most of the rest of the world -
Well, OK, we might settle for a little less than we already have, which is still amongst the world's most generous -and expensive. But we'll generally keep dismissing this little factoid 'cause it's not what we wanna hear.
It's all relative... Not that I have any love for the Chinese, but the Chinese seem to believe they are in heaven compared to what they had 20 years ago (inconceivable by our standards), and that we are just a bunch of spoiled brats. As much as I hate to admit it, I can see how they might come to that conclusion.
Last edited by amideislas; Mar 19th 2013 at 3:46 pm.
Mar 19th 2013, 3:41 pm
#49
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 835
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Maybe this points to the real truth.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-21831943
Mar 19th 2013, 4:49 pm
#50
Account Closed
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 0
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Well, you know, CMan, I know I can always count on you to exemplify these problems for us.
For the sake of argument, we have a few hundred billion in revenue. But the public wants lots of spending on all kinds of worthy causes, so we all end up spending double our means... ...for decades.
Then, as reality strikes, politicians are faced with cutting back on all the spending we believe we must have (which is political suicide), or find another way out.
The problem is a very slippery slope. We keep piling on the spending to satisfy a public who already live amongst the highest standard in the world, yet believe they are amongst the most victimised (because every political party not currently in power continuously tells us we're victims in their quest to regain power from the other).
The easy way out is to print money to reduce debt and stimulate economic activity through exports (due to falling currency values) and so on... But it has to be very carefully balanced, or else it will backfire.
Really, virtually every economy inevitably implements QE in hard times, but the Eurozone is only now beginning to realise it should have implemented far more aggressive QE long ago. A bit too late, but I reckon there will be more QE soon.
Arguably, the more "responsible" way is to impose austerity on the population in an effort to pay back some of our debts accrued as a result of our social euphoria in times of prosperity, which ironically, only victimises the population even more. It forces the population into a downward economic spiral in an effort to reduce debt, by taking it from public coffers (both public and private in the form of reduced benefits & services while imposing higher taxes), which the population has become so highly dependent upon in a social democracy such as ours. We end up paying more, getting less, and that becomes the new norm, and it's highly counter-productive.
Austerity only further dampens economic growth, and doesn't cut spending at all, in fact, more people end up consuming benefits afforded to them in our social democracy, so spending actually goes up whilst tax revenues fall, and the poor get poorer and rich actually get richer. This is where we are now.
Problem not solved, only "revised" to a different set of headaches.
The political implications are... well, pretty bad. No politician or party will ever enjoy majority public support in such times, especially if they adopt the austerity route. They will all be widely regarded as thieves, no matter what.
So, if you stand in a politicians' shoes for a moment, you might see things from a vastly different perspective - even if you believe your entire career is completely dedicated to the interests of the public, which ironically, are pretty selfish and rarely consistent with best interests of the economy.
So, as our in-house expert on all things, I reckon you'd prefer to blame bank fraud as the sole reason for our economic condition. It's not our fault, or government overspending as a result of public demand to spend (and just a word of advice, before you get your shorts in a twist, just remember previous posts of yours are indeed a matter of record :-)
Good boy. You're buying exactly what they are selling you. Deflecting blame so that you are less likely to engage in revolt at the notion of them taking more and more of your hard earned capital, whilst giving you less in return, rationalised by the need to satisfy the unsustainable debt we've all been accruing for the past few decades (through no fault of ours - the banks forced us into it), and will continue to accrue to satisfy our lust for less work, higher pay, and more benefits than most of the rest of the world -
Well, OK, we might settle for a little less than we already have, which is still amongst the world's most generous -and expensive. But we'll generally keep dismissing this little factoid 'cause it's not what we wanna hear.
It's all relative... Not that I have any love for the Chinese, but the Chinese seem to believe they are in heaven compared to what they had 20 years ago (inconceivable by our standards), and that we are just a bunch of spoiled brats. As much as I hate to admit it, I can see how they might come to that conclusion.
For the sake of argument, we have a few hundred billion in revenue. But the public wants lots of spending on all kinds of worthy causes, so we all end up spending double our means... ...for decades.
Then, as reality strikes, politicians are faced with cutting back on all the spending we believe we must have (which is political suicide), or find another way out.
The problem is a very slippery slope. We keep piling on the spending to satisfy a public who already live amongst the highest standard in the world, yet believe they are amongst the most victimised (because every political party not currently in power continuously tells us we're victims in their quest to regain power from the other).
The easy way out is to print money to reduce debt and stimulate economic activity through exports (due to falling currency values) and so on... But it has to be very carefully balanced, or else it will backfire.
Really, virtually every economy inevitably implements QE in hard times, but the Eurozone is only now beginning to realise it should have implemented far more aggressive QE long ago. A bit too late, but I reckon there will be more QE soon.
Arguably, the more "responsible" way is to impose austerity on the population in an effort to pay back some of our debts accrued as a result of our social euphoria in times of prosperity, which ironically, only victimises the population even more. It forces the population into a downward economic spiral in an effort to reduce debt, by taking it from public coffers (both public and private in the form of reduced benefits & services while imposing higher taxes), which the population has become so highly dependent upon in a social democracy such as ours. We end up paying more, getting less, and that becomes the new norm, and it's highly counter-productive.
Austerity only further dampens economic growth, and doesn't cut spending at all, in fact, more people end up consuming benefits afforded to them in our social democracy, so spending actually goes up whilst tax revenues fall, and the poor get poorer and rich actually get richer. This is where we are now.
Problem not solved, only "revised" to a different set of headaches.
The political implications are... well, pretty bad. No politician or party will ever enjoy majority public support in such times, especially if they adopt the austerity route. They will all be widely regarded as thieves, no matter what.
So, if you stand in a politicians' shoes for a moment, you might see things from a vastly different perspective - even if you believe your entire career is completely dedicated to the interests of the public, which ironically, are pretty selfish and rarely consistent with best interests of the economy.
So, as our in-house expert on all things, I reckon you'd prefer to blame bank fraud as the sole reason for our economic condition. It's not our fault, or government overspending as a result of public demand to spend (and just a word of advice, before you get your shorts in a twist, just remember previous posts of yours are indeed a matter of record :-)
Good boy. You're buying exactly what they are selling you. Deflecting blame so that you are less likely to engage in revolt at the notion of them taking more and more of your hard earned capital, whilst giving you less in return, rationalised by the need to satisfy the unsustainable debt we've all been accruing for the past few decades (through no fault of ours - the banks forced us into it), and will continue to accrue to satisfy our lust for less work, higher pay, and more benefits than most of the rest of the world -
Well, OK, we might settle for a little less than we already have, which is still amongst the world's most generous -and expensive. But we'll generally keep dismissing this little factoid 'cause it's not what we wanna hear.
It's all relative... Not that I have any love for the Chinese, but the Chinese seem to believe they are in heaven compared to what they had 20 years ago (inconceivable by our standards), and that we are just a bunch of spoiled brats. As much as I hate to admit it, I can see how they might come to that conclusion.
Mar 20th 2013, 6:50 am
#51
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Land of no recession
Posts: 10,719
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Well the Cypriot government voted against the measures.
NOW
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warns Cyprus that its banks may never be able to reopen, after its parliament rejected a bailout deal.
If the banks do reopen without any measures in place they will quickly be emptied by the justifiably worried customers.
Then what for Cyprus and the rest of Europe??
NOW
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warns Cyprus that its banks may never be able to reopen, after its parliament rejected a bailout deal.
If the banks do reopen without any measures in place they will quickly be emptied by the justifiably worried customers.
Then what for Cyprus and the rest of Europe??
Mar 20th 2013, 7:07 am
#52
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Well the Cypriot government voted against the measures.
NOW
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warns Cyprus that its banks may never be able to reopen, after its parliament rejected a bailout deal.
If the banks do reopen without any measures in place they will quickly be emptied by the justifiably worried customers.
Then what for Cyprus and the rest of Europe??
NOW
German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble warns Cyprus that its banks may never be able to reopen, after its parliament rejected a bailout deal.
If the banks do reopen without any measures in place they will quickly be emptied by the justifiably worried customers.
Then what for Cyprus and the rest of Europe??
Nice to see the Germans taking control .....
Mar 20th 2013, 7:30 am
#53
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Land of no recession
Posts: 10,719
Mar 20th 2013, 7:55 am
#54
Joined: Jun 2011
Location: In the middle of 10million Olive Trees
Posts: 12,053
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Mar 20th 2013, 10:08 am
#55
Banned
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Living in a good place
Posts: 8,824
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
http://www.diariosur.es/rc/20130313/...303130347.html
Mar 20th 2013, 10:41 am
#56
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Savers in Cyprus have to chip in for bailout,will it happen in Spain
Yes they always say that, whilst ignoring what is going on in their own back yard. According to the USA Spain is a leading centre for money laundering.
http://www.diariosur.es/rc/20130313/...303130347.html
http://www.diariosur.es/rc/20130313/...303130347.html
