evamar

WHITELINEN: NEVER Not in the UK, which is the point, just as you seem to have NEVER met a Spanish person talking fluent English in Spain... In the UK, again the point, some of them told me how lovely Spain is and that they have been spending their holidays in Spain for many years, or that their parents have been living there for decades and the weather is gorgeous. The ones with some Spanish were quite far from being fluent or only knew some greetings, and all of them had very little contact with Spanish people. As they couldn't speak Spanish, they simply had contact with other Brits or as you said other foreigners who made the effort to learn English (as your cultivated Germans, Dutch and Belgians). The parents of a friend of mine are living somewhere in Murcia and were very interested in learning Spanish, I met them I think 3 times and were improving quite fast. 2-3 years more and they will be fluent.

I'm just saying this: Brits living in the UK don't HAVE TO speak English, just as Spanish living in Spain don't HAVE TO speak Spanish. I don't expect British people in the UK to be fluent in Spanish. Really, what do you find so terrible about that? If somebody decide to live abroad for many years, even if it's only to avoid problems and make their own life easier, they should learn some of the language. With this I'm also saying that foreigners living in the UK should learn English.

Foreign languages have always been a "non important" subject in Spain till very recently, just as it's not considered the most important in the UK. I think that British people are supposed to learn a foreign language for at least 4 years or so, cannot remember now, but that is not taught in depth and forgotten very quickly. Very few British people actually decide to go further and become fluent in another language. Exactly the same happens in Spain. Unless one likes the language or has to use it for work or personal circumstances, people don't usually take the time and effort to learn another language. I simply think that living in the foreign country fits the need of learning the language for personal circumstances. French is the most common foreign language taught to my previous generation (in their 60s-80's) younger people normally learn English... and some are now learning Chinese too. This makes it evident that interest is there now. There are lots of young people in Spain speaking fluent English, but many others (young and old) only speak Spanish because they only HAVE TO speak Spanish.

I really cannot see why are you so "quisquillosa" about this. You said that you are using your best Spanglish, fantastic. The more you use the faster you will actually improve it and you will be able to expand your circle and see more places, thus improving your life as you won't have to spend time trying to communicate in English, French or performing mime.

evamar

DOMINO: I know, all the paellas I have had in the UK are "different". Many are not bad at all, just different. Many years ago we went to a Spanish tapas bar in Greenwich and asked for a paella. We got a really delicious rice dish made with lots of white fish, raisins and even cinnamon. Not a paella, and I told them that I wouldn't call it a Spanish paella; at the same time I congratulated them for one of the nicest rice dishes I've ever had. As it happened, the place was ruled by a Persian family and there was not a single Spanish working there. Lovely people, we started talking and they invited us to a frozen margarita and even gave us a lift when we had trouble getting a mini cab, and we had to force the guy to take our money for the lift. We were very sad when they closed the place and left. I'm not a purist... you cannot find chorizo or carrots in traditional paella, but I always seem to find them in the UK. Even made by Spanish people who simply adapt the recipe to the taste of the Brits. You are getting used to the ready made portions from M&S and supermarkets and they are far from a traditional paella. So what? As I said I'm not a purist and don't make a fuss for a few carrots, I can bend the concept of paella a bit... as long as it still has rice.

As per how to order tea... even asking for coffee is different in every place: sometimes I have asked for a café just to be given a café con leche which I took back to the waiter and told him again what I wanted. Some times I also get something I don't want in the UK, and again I just take it back and repeat clearly my order. Maybe I should simply order it in Spanish and let the waiter guess?

To be honest, what you are doing is the only thing you can do: simply ask for tea, and also for milk separately so you can make your own mix. And let them see you doing your mix! Of course everybody likes it their own way, so better ask for the milk separately just as you get sugar separately. It's far better than trying to "educate" somebody to YOUR taste and make it believe that everybody takes their tea that particular way. I remember how tedious and complicated it was to make my tea turn for my colleagues. A couple of people were so fussy that at the end I simply brought some milk separately for them to put their "2 drops" themselves. Not a big deal, but I was FAR more forgiving when they made my tea.

evamar

eeeehhh... Brits living in the UK don't HAVE TO speak Spanish, just as Spanish living in Spain don't HAVE TO speak English.

(Evidently a mistake, but if I don't correct it you people won't let it go, will you? )

Domino

now why would you think that ? ?

Domino

Evamar, could there be a suspicion that the paella was going to be different because it wasnt in Spain.?
I have a Spanish Cookbook and hear of the "standard" paella, but then find that different villages have their own "paella maker" who makes their own version. And then paella can be different in Andalucia to Catalunia. So exactly what is a Spanish Paella ? And surely a recipe is there to provide the bones, where you add or subtract as available, increase or decrease to suit the number of people eating.
Surely if someone makes English Roast Beef lunch or Full English Breakfast they don't have to be English or French for a crepe suzette or even a shepherd to make Shepherds Pie.? We had a lot of trouble with some people wanting immigration rules lifted to employ chefs from particular countries as the only way to make a restaurant and its meals "genuine".

As to drinks, if in a work environment it is only common courtesy to make a drink to suit the individual, it is part of the teamwork that brings you all together.

cricketman

Thats all very well, but sometimes the recipes are changed so much in the UK that they barely resemble the thing they were trying to make in the first place

Whenever I've seen tortilla espanyola in an English cookbook, they always but all kinds of things in it like chorizo, peas, pepper, esparagos, even tomato!

We all know that in Spain it has just 4 ingredients; olive oil, potato, egg and (maybe) onion. You may see the odd variation now and then in Spain, but never how they portray it in the English cookbooks

Domino

ISTR having a tortilla tapas with chorizo in it, must remember to tell that bar you say they are wrong.
doubt I will get such large portions ever ever again


and there was me thinking that the basic foods such as paella and tortilla were made up of basic mixings but an opportunity to make a variation when there are other items that need using up.
must reorganise my larder.

lynnxa

yep - I've had tortilla with all sorts of things - my favourite was in a bar in Denia with prawns- I've had similar since, but the guy who made the tortilla there is a master of tortilla-making

cricketman

I will bet a lot of money that tortilla has only those ingredients I listed 95% of the time. Especially when cooked at home.

In some cafeterias they will add something different as a speciality, but it will almost be as a novelty. And then you can add one ingredient like prawns or chorizo, not a whole mix of ingredients like shown in the British cookbooks. it most definitely is not a dish where you throw any old ingredients in

whitelinen

I expect they wash the paella pan in the UK.

Did you detect a whiff of Fairy?

jackytoo

I don't expect them in Spain but as most of their visitors are international (they still say their most importants tourist market is the British on the costas) they should move with the times. Never stayed in an American hotel that didn't have a filter coffee maker. Most of the British hotels have them too, or a kettle. Caribbean hotels have them as they are catering for British and American tastes. I think when hotels are charging between one to two hundred euros per night it is the least they should provide a kettle and an iron!

I know a lot of spanish who speak English very well (in tourist areas) but none who do not make mistakes in grammar ie. fluent.

cricketman

I wonder how many British people the average Spaniard knows who speak fluent Spanish?

Even the other day, the Dr kept questionning me about my Spanish because she had never met a Brit who can speak Spanish, even well enough to be understood. And that is the Dr in Benalmadena Pueblo. There must be hundreds of Brits who go to that Drs

jackytoo

Well I know a few, admittedly not many but there are now quite a few 2nd generation Brits who are fully fluent. One friend celebrated her 25th wedding anniversary this year, her Husband was born and bred in marbella. They only speak Spanish at home, although have known her shout at the kids in English. There are also a large number of Brits who graduate in spanish every year from British Unis.

I did see a report in the Sur a few weeks ago that the standard of English in spanish schools is low and they needed to do more.

lynnxa

we speak English at home - but I often yell at the kids in Spanish!!!

Domino

I have just had a small piece of English translated and 3 words of the 24 have got the wrong Spanish word in. They use the same root but the wrong meaning. I know it is a little technical, but ........
back to Google Translator

luckily it wasnt a rental agreement