bobd22

Surely if you are early retired but with pensions that should count. My queery re this is what if as in my case I have 2 pensions but my wife has none and will live with me on my pensions until we get old age pension.

Fred James

Your wife is your dependant so it will be your income that counts. Whether that is big enough remains to be seen.

However if you are an ex-pat managing to live in Spain on your pensions it would be surprising if that would not be considered to be enough, plus of course you would need to show health cover as well.

What these new rules will do is prevent all the wannabee expats who have no income or any hope of getting a job from coming to Spain. Let's face it we see plenty of such people appearing on this forum.

The Spanish have a very real problem getting a job in their own country. Any move that prevents foreigners trying to take their jobs has to be sensible. The people in the UK never stop moaning about Eastern Europeans and others coming to the UK looking for jobs so why should Spain be any different.

The reality is that the only foreigners that the Spanish want are retired people with a good pension income that will be taxed in Spain and the balance spent in Spain.

bobd22

My 2 pensions will be larger than if the 2 of us were both drawing old age pension, initially we would use whatever health cover we can get from contribution based S1 after that we would take private until able to revert back to S1 when I reach 65 when I can get my old age pension and health cover for both of us. My current pensions are both Government Forces/Police so will be taxed in the UK.
I totally agree with your comments re wanabee expats with no income and like yourself it amazes me when I read what they are hoping for. We have our property already in Spain which is paid and the running costs are quite low i.e. taxes etc. To be honest I would envisage our monthly income would be in the region of 1300 Euro at current exchange rates.

Lynn R

If these new rules do indeed have the effect of preventing people coming to live in Spain who don't have any income or sufficient savings to live on, I think it will be doing them a kindness - IF they take any notice of it. I fear, however, that there will always be those who think they're not going to take any notice and will just live under the radar. I know more than one couple who have been living here as long or longer than I have and have never signed on the register of foreigners or applied for health care (nor do they have private health insurance because they go back to the UK for treatment - regularly in the case of one guy who is diabetic). They work on the black as well, although they do have some pension income.

Although it won't affect me personally, I will be interested to see how early retired people with no pension income at the time they move, but sufficient savings to support them until their pension becomes payable, will be treated under the new rules, as that was our situation when we moved.

lynnxa

yes, that's the same as I'm wondering, although it doesn't affect me either

you're right - I think it might just drive people 'underground' - & like you I know quite a few people who are here full time, but aren't registered anywhere, don't do tax returns & go back to the UK regularly for hospital treatment

I've fallen out with more than one person over this, because I feel so strongly about it - they just don't see that they are using the UK health service illegally & are no better than the 'illegal immigrants' they complain so loudly about (many/most of whom of course aren't illegal at all...)

britishbull

"I've fallen out with more than one person over this, because I feel so strongly about it - they just don't see that they are using the UK health service illegally & are no better than the 'illegal immigrants' they complain so loudly about (many/most of whom of course aren't illegal at all...)"

Depends really, if they have spent their life in the UK paying absurd taxes and social security they are probably right to expect to finally get something back when they get ill even if they are spending most of their time in Spain. If you compare that to what the bankers have got away with, and continue to get away with, then it's hardly a big time crime.

lynnxa

no - they don't live in the UK - the health service entitlement in the UK is residence based - so they are simply not entitled to use it

whether or not we agee with that system is immaterial - that IS the system

billgates

What's with the entitlement attitude that so many brits have?
I hear it all the time, just because someone has "been paying into the system all my life" why do they expect to be able to "get something back"?

I mean, you pay car insurance for years and never make a claim. Do you then expect a refund? No. And if you stop paying your car insurance and then have an accident you suddenly find that you aren't covered. As expected.
So why with the uk National Insurance that everyone in the uk pays do people still expect to be able to claim on it long after they have stopped actually paying into it?

Oh, and I agree about the bankers. They should be strung up.

Domino

have to agree Bill, it isnt called National Insurance for nothing.
out of that they will get their pension as well.

I would imagine my doctor is still claiming his stipend for holding me on his books, even though I got little assistance 3 years ago when I could hardly walk, just a few co-codomol on prescription. I ended up sorting myself out as they were a waste of time, so cannot see a reason for wanting to fly home to see them - especially as I have been able to build up a rapport with local doctor using the S1.

Chiclanagir

So has anyone recently been to get their new green form?

lynnxa

SueG reported on FB that she had got some for clients this week (or last) with the S1 & bank statements showing pension payments

Chiclanagir

Were these new people or people who had been here a while?

bobd22

[QUOTE=billgates;10116264]What's with the entitlement attitude that so many brits have?
I hear it all the time, just because someone has "been paying into the system all my life" why do they expect to be able to "get something back"?

I mean, you pay car insurance for years and never make a claim. Do you then expect a refund?


There are a variety of people who own homes in Spain and it is up to them how they manage to do this dependant upon their situation. Your analogy between purchasing car insurance and health cover for me does not fit. Yes you do do get something back if you never claim on car insurance a no claims discount which is transferable between company's and no doubt some on here will possibly have transferred it from UK to Spain. Owning a car and thus requiring car insurance is a choice depending where you live it can make life much easier etc but it is not a life or death issue unfortunately health cover is. There are some people that have properties in Spain who because of circumstances may come for 3 months UK for 3 months etc or 6 months Spain 6 months UK they are entitled to use the UK health system as they are resident in the UK. I am not condoning those that totally abuse the system by living permanent in Spain without registering and still use UK health system. From my comments you will see that I have been enquiring to find out the best and correct way to do this. To be honest probably for the next couple of years I will be in the boat of doing 3 months each as part of our plans we have downsized in the UK and will require to have the new place as main residence for 3 years.
I think Lynnxa probably hits the nail on the head that is whether it is fair that the health cover in the UK is based totally on residence not contributions. when strangely it is all put under the umbrella of National Insurance along with the pension which is contribution based so long as you have contributed. I am in the position of having retired at 58 but as not working and being on a pension only I do not pay National Insurance contributions but do get health cover provided by the NHS as still resident. To be honest without condoning abuse of the system I can see the frustration of someone who may have paid in for say 45 years getting no health cover versus someone who comes into the country and does not contribute getting health cover, however as with most things official fairness is not consideration. Actually I think the big problem is not so much Expats returning for the odd treatment when they talk about health tourism it is the wider thing of people from other countries outside of the EU coming over and abusing our generous system. Having said this I read in the paper today an article about this very matter stating that an American Tourist who had received treatment and asked the hospital for a receipt in order that he could claim on his insurance for them to pay to be told we are unable to do that. One trust is owed £8 million for treatment to foreigners who they have no record of. This problem is believed to cost the NHS £200 million per year so it is something that needs addressing. Per the article the following treatment is free in UK emergency treatment in an A&E dept but not if treated outside A&E, urgent treatment such as maternity treatment whether resident or not and hospitals should take reasonable steps to recover costs from foreign patients.

Jenny22

I have a friend who has lived in Mexico for 5 years. He is a British Citizen with a British passport, but an official resident of Mexico.
Recently he needed minor heart surgery and having checked out his local hospitals, where it was confirmed that the operation required was minor, but needed to be done fairly urgently, he decided he would get the operation and follow on treatment done in the UK.
At no time did he want to get this operation free and he had put aside the equivalent of several thousand £ for his treatment.

But the consultant who agreed to do the surgery quoted him £750 for the cost of treatment if he declared himself as a temporary resident in the UK. He was hardly going to say no to this!

Domino

NHS abuse by foreigners, seems they don't know where to find the Nigerian woman who came on a visitors passport, had quins, cost NHS £500k

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...idespread.html