cricketman

Of course Spain is a mess, it has 25% unemployment

But I agree that the article you linked to is terrible. The only thing it says is that there is a danger of deflation. Note that deflation isnt necessarily a bad thing to the person on the street. It is a bad thing for capitalism and governments in general as it means reduced income and harder to balance the books

But deflation is no worse than inflation. The key measure is how much wages change in relation to the deflation/inflation rate. And of course, whether any jobs are created. Of course it is difficult to create jobs in a deflation environment, but not impossible if the economy is restructured in other ways

I think you will see that I am firmly between the two extreme points of view of Stevie on one hand, and everyone else on the other

For a country with 25% unemployment, Spain is doing tremendously. There is still lots of life in the cities and if you earn around average or more than the quality of life is incredible. Not so good for the bottom 30% or so though of course

I would also say that is an excellent time to start a business in Spain. Overheads are low, employment law if favourable and the actual market place is still very conservative and unbalanced - and Spanish people (in the cities) are very open to new ideas

Dick Dasterdly

I don't think so.
According to the last figures I saw, for every single new business start-up, four others were going to the wall, the worst figures ever.

No surprise that many more than ever before are choosing to operate on the black.
Apart from the cash advantages, they don't have to worry about all the legalities and associated hassle and costs and if things go pear shaped they can get out quick without too much of a loss.

amideislas

Spain has apparently dropped several notches on the "best places to start a business" ratings. It was already pretty low on the list. Starting and running a business remains pretty challenging, unless of course, you're a big business that enjoys a lot of political influence.

And employment law still favours avoiding permanent employment contracts and encourages working on the black.

Dick Dasterdly

What on earth are you bleating on about Stevie ?
What on earth has your reply to me got to do with my previous post no.20 ?
You blotted out your quote option with that pointless picture by the way.

I gave yourself and jonboy an example of why the Chinese are taking over so many Spanish bars as you seemed to be the only two ppl in Spain without a clue of what was happening and why.

In reply to another of your parrot like posts regarding football matches and bars we all know that big games are well supported, much as they were even back in Francos time, it didn't prove a single thing then, no more than it does now.

We all know that the bars around your way are very busy as you have already told us parrot like a zillion times or so.
It is a little strange though that others living there tell a very different story if you cast your mind back a short while and it's also a very different story to that of other posters from various parts of Spain,.......... but only to be expected I suppose.

We all know there is still lots of cash floating about in certain circles and I have said much the same myself.
Maybe you should ask yourself where much of it originates and why it is more obvious than ever at the present time or do I really have to spell that out for you as well ?

jonboy

Dear Dick,
In your post No.20 you quote accusations made in the press against members of the Chinese community.

Have these accusations been substantiated and if so where?

Dick Dasterdly

http://elpais.com/elpais/2012/10/17/...13_987004.html

That scam in particular was said by the police to be so large that it distorted the whole Spanish economy !

cricketman

That is always the case. Most businesses die in the first year

Because unemployment is so high, unfortunately many desperate people start businesses because they dont have any other option. Here in Oviedo, there are a plethora of new sweet shops and shoes shops (for example) that the city doesnt need, but desperate people set them up because they dont know what else to do

Most will be out of business within a year or two

The important thing is to open a business that you are good at and which stands out from the competition. There are very few good businesses around. Most people do exactly the same thing and are very mediocre

jonboy

So no convictions as yet, go on show me some reports of convictions or maybe you accept the press to be the court room and the judge?

Dick Dasterdly

You're not Stevie's twin brother by any chance ?

83 already detained.
11 million in cash, jewels and artworks recouped
1.2 BILLION EURO Defrauded
Confirmed by the Director General of Police !
Also confirmed by the Spanish Interior Minister !

I'd be surprised if I live long enough to hear the end of the court case as they still have some of the perpetrators to round up from various other countries.

....but if you prefer to think all of it was simply a figment of someones wild imagination, then I'll leave you to enjoy your time in La La land.



OPERATION EMPEROR
Chinese money-laundering operation “distorted Spanish economy”
Interior minister predicts more arrests on top of 83 already detained
Police recoup more than 11 million in cash, plus jewels and artworks

The Chinese mafia-linked money-laundering ring smashed on Tuesday “distorted the functioning of our economy,” said the director general of police, Ignacio Cosidó, in a press conference Wednesday.

Following up on Tuesday’s raids in Madrid, Barcelona and Málaga, described by Interior Minister Jorge Fernández as the culmination of “the biggest police operation in Spain’s history,” a further slew of arrests brought the number of detainees to 83.

The network is believed to have defrauded up to 1.2 billion euros. Authorities have so far recovered 11.6 million in cash, as well as jewels, works of art and vehicles. Fernández said there would be more arrests, including at least one “well-known name.”

All of the people thus far detained in the operation, including the porn actor Nacho Vidal and a the Socialist security chief in the Madrid satellite town of Fuenlabrada, José Borrás, were processed by the courts on Wednesday with bails set at between 40,000 and 60,000 euros.

Of the people so far rounded up by police, 58 are Chinese, 17 Spanish and eight are of other nationalities. The final total is expected to rise to 110, with 17 other suspects being sought in countries including Italy, Andorra and Germany.

The alleged mastermind, Gao Ping, was detained in the initial swoop. The Chinese businessman is well known in the art world and in circles dedicated to promoting Chinese-Spanish cooperation. It is thought that Gao and eight other ranking members of the ring controlled three mafia clans that operated together in the money-laundering operation

andyrich666

They dont have a lizzaran chain there where a caña is 70 cents nationally? Must be some big caña for 2 euros

andyrich666

What about in two years when you have to pay full autonomo, surely at 270 a month that's going to put a huge dent in your salary ?

You also need a bit of Capital here unlike the UK where you can pretty much start with nothing.

cricketman

No, just a normal caña

Lizzaran lasted just one year in Oviedo. It closed down because nobody went to it. There is a different "low cost" chain though when the students go where cañas are 1 euro

As for social security payments, to be honest, I don't think they are bad value and after 2 years you will know whether your business is going well or not. If you cannot even pay your social security payments then it is time to close down

andyrich666

There is one here which does a roaring daytime trade but I guess its mainly ex pats / holidaymakers and maybe their only taste of Spain, Id been to a couple before in Madrid, which were ok, but once you had one that's enough, I been to this local one once or twice in 6 months, the real benefit for them though is on that complex its the only bar that has Sun on it all Day and evening, any bar would have it off there I think just the location was snapped up by them.

Fair doo's I was not having a dig

cricketman

I used to go to Lizzaran when I lived on the Costa Del Sol because there really weren't many alternatives. It is very good relatively

But in the North, there are loads of great places to eat, casual and formal, so there is really no need to go to a chain where the quality is always worse. Plus it is a bit weird to be in Oviedo and be eating "pretend" Basque pinchos

However, I would welcome a Lizzaran in the out of town shopping mall where the eating options are horrendous. In Spain, the chains that you find in shopping malls and airports are so terrible it is untrue. It is such a shame as for a lot of tourists, they will leave the country with this impression

jimenato

What the high levels of autonomo payments do is stop part-time self-employed people going legal - those who work for pin money (or beer money). Not everyone who does work for a living does it as their only income. I'm talking about anyone who does a few hours a week maybe teaching, housecleaning, gardening or bar work and earns maybe 50 - 100 Euros a week - enough to supplement the main income.