Pensions
Dec 19th 2010, 10:22 am
#91
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Pensions
Absolutely terrific reply JL.
I was wondering when I read the post about olives and jamon that surely that was the staple diet for people in Andalucia? And that being able to eat olives at Christmas or an orange straight from the tree did not in any way make you rich.
You said it much better that I could have, well done.
(I was not allowed to give you Karma as I must 'spread it around' apparently!).
I was wondering when I read the post about olives and jamon that surely that was the staple diet for people in Andalucia? And that being able to eat olives at Christmas or an orange straight from the tree did not in any way make you rich.
You said it much better that I could have, well done.
(I was not allowed to give you Karma as I must 'spread it around' apparently!).
Dec 19th 2010, 11:16 am
#92
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Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Aracena area Huelva Spain
Posts: 1,631
Re: Pensions
Spoken as atrue "incomer".
The things you have described are the normal staple diet of Spain.
So wealth is eating olive oil??
Olive oil and serrano ham have been around forever, but it did not stop the immigrants leaving Spain in great numbers, because they were dirt poor.
What you have described is somthing a bit more "exotic and different" to the norm in the UK, and is a question of eating habits,no more, no less.
try telling someone who cannot afford to go to the dentist, that they are wealthy because they can eat a strawberry.
Try telling someone who has a below living wage that they are wealthy becasue they are able to eat an orange grown locally.
And as for the comment about people from Spain and the rest of the world being jealous of people from Andalucia, you are stark raving mad.
You reckon the the whole of Spain are lamenting their misfortune of not being Andaluz?
On behalf of me and mine I find that comment quite insulting, as though the rest of us have no pride in our roots or regions.
I can tell you that the answer is no, no more than the whole of the UK population is not totally destroyed at not being born in London, Devon or The Lake District.
The things you have described are the normal staple diet of Spain.
So wealth is eating olive oil??
Olive oil and serrano ham have been around forever, but it did not stop the immigrants leaving Spain in great numbers, because they were dirt poor.
What you have described is somthing a bit more "exotic and different" to the norm in the UK, and is a question of eating habits,no more, no less.
try telling someone who cannot afford to go to the dentist, that they are wealthy because they can eat a strawberry.
Try telling someone who has a below living wage that they are wealthy becasue they are able to eat an orange grown locally.
And as for the comment about people from Spain and the rest of the world being jealous of people from Andalucia, you are stark raving mad.
You reckon the the whole of Spain are lamenting their misfortune of not being Andaluz?
On behalf of me and mine I find that comment quite insulting, as though the rest of us have no pride in our roots or regions.
I can tell you that the answer is no, no more than the whole of the UK population is not totally destroyed at not being born in London, Devon or The Lake District.
Dec 19th 2010, 12:01 pm
#93
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Pensions
I was talking about wealth *creation*, as in the post on which I was commenting. Wealth is created in Andalucia in the form of food. And, as someone who can't afford to go to the dentist myself, I can tell you good food is wealth. I was not insulting other areas, only answering the thread of insults aimed at Andalucians.
If the cost of harvesting the crop is more than the crop is worth how can that be wealth creating for the grower concerned?
Answering the insults aimed at the people of Andalucia by insulting the rest of the Spanish population by saying they are jealous, is not the best way to go about anything.
Dec 19th 2010, 1:33 pm
#94
Ex Expat
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: West Midlands, ex Granada province
Posts: 2,140
Re: Pensions
So wealth is created in the form of food, so the stories about the growers of melons and oranges leaving them to rot on the ground are untrue?
If the cost of harvesting the crop is more than the crop is worth how can that be wealth creating for the grower concerned?
Answering the insults aimed at the people of Andalucia by insulting the rest of the Spanish population by saying they are jealous, is not the best way to go about anything.
If the cost of harvesting the crop is more than the crop is worth how can that be wealth creating for the grower concerned?
Answering the insults aimed at the people of Andalucia by insulting the rest of the Spanish population by saying they are jealous, is not the best way to go about anything.
Dec 19th 2010, 1:53 pm
#95
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Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Aracena area Huelva Spain
Posts: 1,631
Re: Pensions
So wealth is created in the form of food, so the stories about the growers of melons and oranges leaving them to rot on the ground are untrue?
If the cost of harvesting the crop is more than the crop is worth how can that be wealth creating for the grower concerned?
Answering the insults aimed at the people of Andalucia by insulting the rest of the Spanish population by saying they are jealous, is not the best way to go about anything.
If the cost of harvesting the crop is more than the crop is worth how can that be wealth creating for the grower concerned?
Answering the insults aimed at the people of Andalucia by insulting the rest of the Spanish population by saying they are jealous, is not the best way to go about anything.
I would like to answer your earlier comment along the lines of "try telling Andalucians that a strawberry is wealth" Actually, my neighbours who are also friends do indeed appreciate what they have. Many of them have very little, (including very few teeth!) but they feel wealthy, and they are wealthy! They have the sun in the sky and a healthy diet. Long life, family, fiestas and a self-help mentality that ought to be the envy of the whole world..... if it isn't.
Dec 19th 2010, 4:07 pm
#96
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Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Pensions
Oh dear oh dear. I wasn't insulting anyone. If you insist on reading my comments about happy Andalucians as a personal slight to yourself as a non-Andalucian, that's your currency.
I would like to answer your earlier comment along the lines of "try telling Andalucians that a strawberry is wealth" Actually, my neighbours who are also friends do indeed appreciate what they have. Many of them have very little, (including very few teeth!) but they feel wealthy, and they are wealthy! They have the sun in the sky and a healthy diet. Long life, family, fiestas and a self-help mentality that ought to be the envy of the whole world..... if it isn't.
I would like to answer your earlier comment along the lines of "try telling Andalucians that a strawberry is wealth" Actually, my neighbours who are also friends do indeed appreciate what they have. Many of them have very little, (including very few teeth!) but they feel wealthy, and they are wealthy! They have the sun in the sky and a healthy diet. Long life, family, fiestas and a self-help mentality that ought to be the envy of the whole world..... if it isn't.
I do think that those who pursue wealth beyond what they really need to be happy are unlikely ever to find happiness, no matter what they might earn.
Dec 20th 2010, 2:37 am
#97
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Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Near Alora....but not too near. :)
Posts: 1,646
Re: Pensions
Only on moving to Andalucia did I come to appreciate the more simple and less materialistic way of life!
Kama heading your way for that Bill.
Dec 20th 2010, 9:04 am
#98
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Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Aracena area Huelva Spain
Posts: 1,631
Re: Pensions
Thanks for sorting that out for me:-)
Dec 20th 2010, 10:41 am
#99
Banned
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 5,008
Re: Pensions
My whole point of writing is to say that is not they way of thinking for the majority of the locals, they are only human and only want what you have already had, and try telling then that they are mistaken.
Dec 20th 2010, 11:52 am
#100
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Joined: Feb 2008
Location: Vejer de la Fra., Cadiz
Posts: 7,653
Re: Pensions
That is correct, it is a lot easier when you reach a certain age and have had the materialistic life and it is choice you actively make to appreciate it, nobody is disputing that.
My whole point of writing is to say that is not they way of thinking for the majority of the locals, they are only human and only want what you have already had, and try telling then that they are mistaken.
My whole point of writing is to say that is not they way of thinking for the majority of the locals, they are only human and only want what you have already had, and try telling then that they are mistaken.
Dec 21st 2010, 1:07 am
#101
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Joined: Sep 2010
Location: Near Alora....but not too near. :)
Posts: 1,646
Re: Pensions
That is correct, it is a lot easier when you reach a certain age and have had the materialistic life and it is choice you actively make to appreciate it, nobody is disputing that.
My whole point of writing is to say that is not they way of thinking for the majority of the locals, they are only human and only want what you have already had, and try telling then that they are mistaken.
My whole point of writing is to say that is not they way of thinking for the majority of the locals, they are only human and only want what you have already had, and try telling then that they are mistaken.
I must remember to ask my *Spanish* family here if you are indeed correct....though with my many decades of experience of Spanish family life here I know for a fact that you are not!
As for the locals around here, well the majority of them are in fact quite wealthy people, all thanks to the ex-pats that they sold their houses and land to at the height of the property boom.
Even though these people are now rich beyond their wildest dreams they still live simple lives.
They are not in the least materialistic and prefer to live as they have always done... making the most of family and friends and living off the land, and they do indeed feel more blessed by that than by all their accumulated wealth.
Dec 21st 2010, 5:55 am
#102
Ex Expat
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: West Midlands, ex Granada province
Posts: 2,140
Re: Pensions
You do seem to have a great gift for being able to read the minds of the locals, and also in guessing my age and social standing....it's quite remarkable!
I must remember to ask my *Spanish* family here if you are indeed correct....though with my many decades of experience of Spanish family life here I know for a fact that you are not!
As for the locals around here, well the majority of them are in fact quite wealthy people, all thanks to the ex-pats that they sold their houses and land to at the height of the property boom.
Even though these people are now rich beyond their wildest dreams they still live simple lives.
They are not in the least materialistic and prefer to live as they have always done... making the most of family and friends and living off the land, and they do indeed feel more blessed by that than by all their accumulated wealth.
I must remember to ask my *Spanish* family here if you are indeed correct....though with my many decades of experience of Spanish family life here I know for a fact that you are not!
As for the locals around here, well the majority of them are in fact quite wealthy people, all thanks to the ex-pats that they sold their houses and land to at the height of the property boom.
Even though these people are now rich beyond their wildest dreams they still live simple lives.
They are not in the least materialistic and prefer to live as they have always done... making the most of family and friends and living off the land, and they do indeed feel more blessed by that than by all their accumulated wealth.
We too live in a small village that is almost entirely 'traditional' Spanish. Some of our villagers too have sold their land/houses to expats and made a lot of money.
Yes they still have their family values and traditional culture which is worth a lot. BUT they also have stoves that burn pellets which cost 1000s (we can't afford one), and bathrooms that would not look out of place at the Ritz.
All the children from illiterate or semi-literate parents are going to University and entering the professions (and why not?).
Yes, these people were poor, some of them are now quite well off, and they do not want the trappings of poverty any longer. And who can blame them?
There will be no-one left soon to work the land here in the traditional ways so the traditions will die with the last generation. Shame for us foreigners, who would like to keep it traditional, but nevertheless the parents want more for their children than eking out a living on marginal land. Wouldn't you?
Last edited by scampicat; Dec 21st 2010 at 5:59 am.
Dec 21st 2010, 8:40 am
#103
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Joined: Dec 2009
Location: Aracena area Huelva Spain
Posts: 1,631
Re: Pensions
This is not entirely correct.
We too live in a small village that is almost entirely 'traditional' Spanish. Some of our villagers too have sold their land/houses to expats and made a lot of money.
Yes they still have their family values and traditional culture which is worth a lot. BUT they also have stoves that burn pellets which cost 1000s (we can't afford one), and bathrooms that would not look out of place at the Ritz.
All the children from illiterate or semi-literate parents are going to University and entering the professions (and why not?).
Yes, these people were poor, some of them are now quite well off, and they do not want the trappings of poverty any longer. And who can blame them?
There will be no-one left soon to work the land here in the traditional ways so the traditions will die with the last generation. Shame for us foreigners, who would like to keep it traditional, but nevertheless the parents want more for their children than eking out a living on marginal land. Wouldn't you?
We too live in a small village that is almost entirely 'traditional' Spanish. Some of our villagers too have sold their land/houses to expats and made a lot of money.
Yes they still have their family values and traditional culture which is worth a lot. BUT they also have stoves that burn pellets which cost 1000s (we can't afford one), and bathrooms that would not look out of place at the Ritz.
All the children from illiterate or semi-literate parents are going to University and entering the professions (and why not?).
Yes, these people were poor, some of them are now quite well off, and they do not want the trappings of poverty any longer. And who can blame them?
There will be no-one left soon to work the land here in the traditional ways so the traditions will die with the last generation. Shame for us foreigners, who would like to keep it traditional, but nevertheless the parents want more for their children than eking out a living on marginal land. Wouldn't you?
There are too many people with hard and fast rules about which is the right way to go. It's precisely because the world is full of glorious diversity, that I, for one, enjoy living in it. The Spanish seem more capable than most of balancing these differences in aspirations and respecting them. Would that there were as much tolerance in this forum.
They say, and it's true, that the Andalucians are "muy agogedores". (very welcoming).
My theory is that it's people from the traditionally poorest parts of a country who are the most welcoming.
Maybe some of us are extraordinarily lucky to live in places where we are very much welcomed as a new and interesting addition, but only an addition, to a strong existing culture. We are not being condescending (as is often said here) when we celebrate that.
Dec 21st 2010, 9:20 am
#104
Senior Moment
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: On the edge
Posts: 20,460
Re: Pensions
You do seem to have a great gift for being able to read the minds of the locals, and also in guessing my age and social standing....it's quite remarkable!
I must remember to ask my *Spanish* family here if you are indeed correct....though with my many decades of experience of Spanish family life here I know for a fact that you are not!
.
I must remember to ask my *Spanish* family here if you are indeed correct....though with my many decades of experience of Spanish family life here I know for a fact that you are not!
.
I think you might find that JLFS has some experience of Spanish family life
