amideislas

I've always wondered...

Forced air heating/cooling have always been the most effective in terms of comfort; they not only heat/cool cleanly, with circulated air, but also clean the air of dust, pet dander, and other particles in the process (provided you install a cheap and simple filter). You can see a visible difference in the dust that collects on your furnishings. They facilitate cheap and easy after-the-fact addition of air conditioning, too.

It's not expensive to install when building or refurbishing a house, but the ductwork needs to be installed as a core part of the building's infrastructure, so obviously, not a viable option unless you're ripping into your home from the ground up. Although you can install surface ductwork and then cover it up with plasterboard or something - less desirable, but it works.

I remember having forced air heat in England (and it was lovely), and AFAIK, it's the common standard in the US.

But here in Spain (and most of Europe, really), I see it's always commercial buildings, not dwellings that have it. Dwellings almost always have radiated heat, which is less desirable for all those reasons. I am confused as to why radiated heat is the standard, and why forced air heating is so difficult to find. I can't believe the cost differential is that great.

Forced air is equally or more economical and provides far better results -- as long as you build it in from the start. I would think especially in dusty Spain, forced air would be the method of choice for new builds and complete refurbs.

billgates

No-one has yet mentioned under floor heating.

I have no idea how efficient it is but we rented a property in Portugal one week in the winter time and the under floor heating was an absolute delight. Just to pad around on warm floor tiles in bare feet was such a pleasure. The entire room was cosy, no cold or hot spots anywhere. Would love heating like that in my old Spanish house.

Countryboy1

Thanks for the above.
Would wall mounted inverter air-con units come under the definition of forced air?

amideislas

Well, sort of... except they generally don't have facilities for air filters, which a "central" forced-air heating system does. Another nice feature of central forced air is the ability to add a humidity control system, so your heating isn't moist, and your aircon isn't so dry. Both of which can lead to colds and sinus problems.

I've been hearing some good things about those wall-mounted heat pumps and their efficiency. Unfortunately, they are electric, which in Spain, has a higher cost-per-kilowatt of energy. Gas is still quite a bit cheaper (for heating), even if you have only the usual radiated hot-water heat system. And for what it's worth, assuming electric is somehow better for the environment is like believing that vegetable fat is somehow better than animal fat. Both are still fat.

Still, Insulation is probably the single best investment you can make in terms of heating and cooling. But only recently have Spanish architects & builders begun to consider insulation as important design criteria.

jimenato

Hear, hear!

It hasn't been really cold here (Somerset), down to 3C one night, but so far this modern house doesn't appear to need any heating beyond a quick blast in the morning and evening and we've been too hot in bed (fnar, fnar) in November.

frigilianafreddy

The trouble with A/C is it sends out warm air but if the room is any decent size there are lots of cold spots and the overall effect is not "cosy". The nearest we get to "cosy" is if we a have the woodburner roaring away.

Moses2013

As I said, wouldn't go with neater heaters. It always depends what type of person you are. Some heating systems will be better for one person, but not so good for the other. We have wall mounted air con units and the air source heat pump absorbs heat from the outside air, so maybe only 1/4 of the heat generated would be electricity costs, but also depends on outside temperature, quality of heat pump. We also have a domestic hot water heat pump and it saves us hundreds a year. Electricity in general isn't bad and can save you money in some cases. An underfloor heating system needs more time to heat, but a downflow heater might do a better job, because you just want instant heat for a few mins. The infrared is a great option in a bathroom, because you'll have a steam free mirror and it's a nicer heat.

Fred James

In terms of efficiency it will be much the same as other forms of electric heating.

We have 150m2 of underfloor heating in ten separate areas (it was a very cheap deal when we built the house) and if it is all on at the same time it would use 17kw which would probably melt the meter!

We use it in our bedroom and bathroom all through the winter but it is only on for three hours from about 4am. When the weather is cold we turn on the living areas (about 50m2) at the same time. As we are on a dual tariff the cost is reasonable (less than 50% of the normal rate). If the weather is very cold we would give it another two hours before 12am when the meter switches to the day rate.

So, it's no more efficient than any other form of electric heating but it is economical because we can maximise the usage at the cheap rates. It is essentially also a form of heat storage system as the floor retains its heat for at least two hours. In the evening we use the log burner and if we come in late when it's not worth lighting the fire we would use the A/C heating.

spitfire58

He didn't say that. He said "for the same amount of electricity" obviously a hair dryer uses less than a washing machine but actually gives out more heat because its main function is to heat up air. I think what he meant was that type "a" 2kw heater will give out same amount of heat as type "b" 2kw heater

jimenato

Correct - thank you. I thought that what I said was obvious enough but there you go..

frigilianafreddy

But there is the issue of "comfort". My old Gran's 1 bar (1KW?) electric fire certainly didn't seem to "warm" the room as well a modern 1KW fan heater. Both used 1kw, both pushed out 1kw - but one warmed the rrom and the other the front of my body when sitting in front of iy.

So the question remains - to create a "warm" room what is better - a couple of oil filled rads or one of these ceramic/stone radiators? Or are both capable of creating a "warm room". Note, i use " " around warm. Why? well because when i have A/C on in summer and it's 35C outside I feel nice and "cool" in the bedroom yet the A/C thermostat is turned to 25C - a temperature i would find damn welcome right now in my lounge!

This is a genuine question, what type of heat delivers the best "warm and cosy" room? Or, as you imply, will they all do the same job if they're rated the same.

jonboy

Perhaps a heater with a glowing coal effect front, would give the illusion that things are warmer than would otherwise be imagined. Add to this an ornamental dustpan, brush and poker? A couple of red candles flickering might add to the effect.
You might be found conked out from hypothermia the next morning but at least you will go looking cosy

Sorry, not the best answer but I sort of liked the idea

spitfire58

jonboy

It was your Gran's one bar fire that brought it all on

Moses2013

Fact is that not every heater produces the heat it's supposed to. Best examples are washing machines.