Re: Moving to Spain
 

You obviously went to the wrong places :D

Maybe you should go to Napoli to see people hunting through bins, or maybe stand next to the piles of rubbish

I used to live in Barcelona, there are 10,000s of young Italians living there because they say they cant find the same opportunities in Italy. I think that tells you everything you need to know!

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Envy:rofl:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I know that Spain was not a patch on Italy the place I live compared to Sevilla, which is a nice place but the poverty is like nothing I have ever seen and we were in a nice part.

Anyway, it was not pleasant and I know that because I was there!:)

Re: Moving to Spain
 

That's what all the narrow-minded teacher bashers think (and don't you mean 'hack it in a real job'?)

I think logic REALLY escapes some people on here. They post about how hard life is in Spain, how nobody should go there, how much they're struggling and in some cases, how they totally failed and had to go back and still try to look down on other people for 'only' being teachers?

Your bitterness is apparent and rather amusing to me. I don't know what you do, but I've done several different jobs and I was good at all of them. I just didn't enjoy them. I love teaching. It's fun, rewarding, interesting and challenging. I get paid pretty much a full-time salary for about 16 contact hours a week. My prep time is minimal, as I have a lot of experience and resources. I can sleep in late most mornings and do only a couple of hours on a Friday. I have plenty of time to work on my writing and music.

You just keep telling yourself teaching is for losers. I'm sure whatever you do is SO much more important. I'm just glad I'm not slogging away in a job I hate so I can impress the neighbours and strangers on the internet. :D

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Most English TEFL teachers I know work few hours and get lousy pay, the ones that don't are not the norm.

TEFL teachers do have a rather "backpacker" status, quite logical considering the number of former TEFLtons that one meets.

When recounting their experinces of 1 year in China, 18 months in Italy etc, it is obvious that the big draw to get the qualification was to be able to travel and earn a few bob to be able to do so.

Another reason is that whenever anyone asks about moving to Spain (or travelling around the world, the stock answer is usually "become a TEFL teacher".
That seems to be the advice wheeled out on a regular basis on this forum too.

TEFL teaching does not appear to be a life long career choice for many, most do it for a limited length of time, usually until it has outlived its usefulness ie, when they need to settle down.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I've recently been visiting Madrid, and took the opportunity to catch up with some teacher friends. It seems as before they are certainly doing well and are earning 2k+ a month. This was always the case with the autonomo business English teachers, but it appears that the academy teachers on contract have plenty of 25 or 30 Euro private classes to supplement their income.
For those who "know better" despite in fact having no knowledge of the profession, here is a directory listing of teachers offering language classes in Madrid. Unless all teachers of English are total liars (and I can assure you they are not) you can see that the majority state the classes are charged at between 25 and 30 Euros per hour
http://www.madridteacher.com/profesores-de-ingles.htm
Having said all that, it's not all it may seem. My old colleague is annoyed at the rise in taxes for autonomos, and is considering looking for a tax free lucrative post in the Middle East after 12 years in Spain. I think he should weigh up sweating it out so he at least gets the 15 years of autonomo fees towards a good pension in Spain (better than the UK equivalent, but he's paid in plenty of dosh over the years). Also, 2k is certainly a good wage in Madrid, but you have to remember that classes fade away for several weeks over Christmas, and dissapear altogether in August. Many teachers find they have to get temporary work in the UK or Ireland at that time, or use up their savings.
The feedback I get from the Madrid community is that they currently have plenty of work, and if you are prepared to work hard the rewards are there - one of the few areas where you would earn more than in London. However the Spanish govt is now squuezing more tax out of you, and who knows if the current demand for languages will continue in the same vein in the future? It may be that if demand slackens you will need to consider working in China, Turkey or other countries.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Sevilla is not the whole of Spain! Your comment is just stupidly generalised

The dirtiest city I've ever been to is Rome. I have no idea if the whole of Italy is as dirty

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Not related to CM are you, he's good at everything as well.

So how much is a full salary? Sounds like you are working the equivalent of 2 days a week and bumming around the rest, like a lot of TEFL teachers. I thought you were trying to convince us you were a dedicated, hard working grafter.

Nice little 150 hour TEFL course for £49 for anyone else that fancies earning big money.
http://www.groupon.co.uk/deals/natio...0_0_304&a=1664

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Another post that shows a lack of knowledge of the profession. Although there may be 16 hours giving the class, there is also preparation work needed. Additionally, if you do business and/or private classes, chances are you'll spend time travelling to each location, not every teacher has the luxury of block classes.
Although 16 hours is probably the minimum you'd need (as you get cancellations from time to time) that still works out at a decent wage @ 25 or 30 euros an hour. I'm sure other jobs can pay more, but there are jobs that pay less and are more unstable...

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Here's a useful link for those thinking of training to teach English

http://www.englishwarehouse.com/arti...&cat=education

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Not many on here will need that link...they all have a starter TEFL:rofl::rofl:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

You really are very amusing and again, your jealousy is shining through. Really clutching at straws now, aren't we?

Yes, I am a dedicated professional. When did I mention grafting? Grafting is what I did when I worked in McDonald's as a student, during the summer, doing entire days for less than I'm earning now. I worked hard at university, during my Masters, during my CELTA course and in my previous TEFL employment in places like London where wages were low and now I have a very nice job that I enjoy a lot. I don't need to graft and it has given me a serious chuckle that someone is seriously trying to tell me I should be working twice as hard or long for the same money when there's absolutely no need to. I would have thought that common sense would tell you that the ideal job pays you a full-time salary while essentially letting you work part time.

I know this is probably too much for you to take, given that you can't comprehend anyone's reality but your own, but I don't 'bum around' in my spare time. I get plenty of sleep because I have a serious medical condition that means I get tired easily. The rest of the time, I translate, contribute articles to an English teaching journal, practise the piano and guitar, study for the DELE exam and volunteer at a food pantry and as a teacher for kids whose parents can't afford an academy.

So, how do you spend your day?

That's not a proper course and no serious school would employ someone with that. I see the whole idea of different levels of qualifications and experience escapes you. Just to spell it out for you:

You can get a third in Media Studies from a university nobody's ever heard of. That's a degree. You can also get a first class degree from Oxford. That's a degree. They are not equivalent.

Person A could work in a shack in Thailand for a year, teaching English conversation. Person B could work at a reputable school in Madrid, teaching Business English, exam preparation and working on syllabus design. Both jobs might fall under the TEFL umbrella, but they couldn't be more different.

Do you get it yet?

Re: Moving to Spain
 

How I see it too.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

You didn't answer the question, what's this weekly equivalent you get for working 2 days.

Then perhaps you have chosen the correct job, I've never had the pleasure of working for 2 days and getting paid for a full week.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I'm earning quite a bit more than the average monthly salary here.

A bit oversimplified there. Teaching hours aren't like office hours. You walk into the school and you're working very, very hard the entire time. Energy-wise, three or four hours of teaching is probably equivalent to a whole day in an office. Have you never asked yourself why most teachers aren't doing 40 hour weeks? I suppose you think they're just lazy. If you work in an office, you're sitting down most of the day, have coffee/tea at hand, can chat with colleagues etc. When you're teaching, the attention is on you 100% of the time and it's up to you to keep the class motivated. It's very, very tiring.

It's worth it for me because I enjoy my job and having few contact hours means I have a lot more free time to do other things, but not everyone could hack it. It's one of those jobs where you get paid for what you actually do, not for the time you sit in front of a computer. Same goes for my writing and translation work. The more efficient I am and the better the work I produce, the more I get paid. I find that much more rewarding than a 9-5 job.

If you want the pleasure of getting paid full-time wages for a '2 day week' then why haven't you signed up for that TEFL course? That's all you need, isn't it?

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Paris Hilton (lol)
I have millions in the bank, am as thick as they come, can't read so I can't do any research, have never been to Spain, just plan on coming over one day and buying a beautiful house with a pool and setting up in Spain and live a relaxed, worry-free life preferably far away from Gandia as I can get. Maybe you keep your house on over in the UK in case YOU fail.
P.S. My rose tinted glasses are working fine thank you ;)

Seriously.... from as far back as I can remember I have moved all over the place. Some good some bad. I know all about life's ups and downs. About good and bad. and there is a perfectly good way of pointing things out to people without being downright rude. That's all I've been trying to get at, but some people are so thick that they don't get it. Duh!!!!

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Sorry but this is absolute rubbish...you obviously have never lived in the real business world where people earn money on the merit and by their wits. If you dont think that can be tiring and energy sapping then have a go yourself. Two days a week!!!..you must be joking to call that a job! Some of the teachers I have known over the years have been the laziest stoned drunkards I have met and then they happily get paid at the end of the month...sorry but thats not tiring or living in the real world. They usually justify their existence and life style by saying they are hard working and dedicated.......go into most staff rooms and see for yourself!:rofl:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

This is from the CELTA leaflet (http://www.cambridgeesol.org/assets/...let-2012.pdf):
Ideally you should:
• have a standard of education equivalent to that required for entry into higher education
• be aged 20 or over
• have a standard of English which will enable you to teach at a range of levels.
Centres may still accept you if you do not have formal qualifications at this level but can demonstrate that you would be likely to complete the course successfully. Some centres may, at their discretion, accept applicants aged between 18 and 20.
So you don't need a degree or any previous experience to get a Celta certificate. Whether you get it or not depends on yourself.
I just like facts.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

All I know is that if I want a teacher to teach me or my children a foreign language, I would want and pay for a "proper" teacher, not a TEFL, unless I wanted a bit of conversational stuff - and then I wouldnt expect to pay much

Jo xxx

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I've worked in business. I've had plenty of 5am starts and 11pm finishes. It was taking its toll on my health, as I have a medical condition, so I chose to move away from that. I don't work two days a week, never said that. I said that I generally have 20 or fewer CONTACT hours. Marking, admin and prep time is extra.

I love how some people think the number of hours you work is the be all and end all. Who cares? Must be a working class thing. I was always taught that the less work you did for the more money, the better. That gives you quality of life, rather than working yourself into the ground. If someone has the ability to earn a full time wage while working part time, why begrudge them?The same with this obsession with the 'real world'. If you're working, paying taxes and contributing to society, then you're very much living in the real world. I've never claimed a penny in benefits in my life. I deal with people all day long and you think sitting behind a desk all day is the real world? Amusing. I don't know these teachers you met. I hear stories about people like that but none of them have ever worked in my schools.

I've always needed a degree to get a job in TEFL and the place I did my CELTA didn't accept anyone without a degree.

More fool you, then. Most secondary English teachers I know wouldn't have a clue about how to teach grammar to non-natives. I've just hired a private teacher to help me prepare for the DELE C2 exam. She works in an academy and has been giving private classes for years. There would be no point in hiring a Spanish secondary school teacher for this. I want to learn grammar and idiomatic expressions for my exam, not discuss Don Quixote. You don't seem to understand the difference between English as a foreign language and English as a school subject.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I had some sympathy for you earlier but that's gone now. You have just contradicted yourself, haven't you....You said teaching was more stressful than 'office work'....daft phrase that, 'office work' covers a multitude of tasks these days from highly paid IT work -more than you could dream of as a teacher and well-deserved- to scanning and hoovering the floors.
Then you say you gave up work in business because of the stress....:frown:

Why do you think working all hours is a working class thing? Nah, professionals work all hours, professionals and business owners.

Your comment about secondary school teachers is patronising and ignorant.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Most teachrers I know earn £40k plus. Heads of big inner city schools can get over £100k. Plus good pensions.

All have degrees.

Don't know a TEFL who earns anything like that.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Not disagreeing with your first statement but you are not comparing like for like.
A teacher of English as a foreign language at a school in London will only earn £9-14 per hour, and can earn more in Madrid (or Istanbul or other places) where the cost of living is lower.
Not that it's all plain sailing, as almost everywhere in Madrid closes at high summer (and a few weeks around Christmas too).
I think the teachers at standard schools in the UK are on a hiding to nothing and deserve every penny they can get. I personally know a couple who've had nervous breakdowns. No wonder too, with all the targets set from central government, unsympathetic parents, and shocking behaviour from many of the children. It's more like crowd control than teaching.
It is far more rewarding to teach people who want to learn than a class of 30+ who have no interest in doing so (and yes I know there are school children who do want to progress, but far too often they are set back by their peer group).

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Stevie, that brings up the other problem - class sizes.
When I was at school we had classes of approx 30, when my daughter was at school she was in a class of 32, despite the local council harping on about there being no more than 25 children per teacher - they included head teacher who rarely teaches and non-teaching staff.
Today is no better, all we have is these new superschools of 2,000+ but no improvement on class sizes.
Peter Drucker started the Pyramid method of management in the 1950's, saying that no manager can manage more than 7 people. So how can a teacher be expected to manage 30 people who have a desire to go in 30 different directions :confused:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Met quite a few UK ex-teachers in Spain who have had breakdowns/stress problems which enabled them to retire early on good pensions.:cool::rofl:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I didn't say I gave up working in business because of the stress. I said it was the hours. Perhaps try to read my posts properly before you accuse me of contradicting myself.

I didn't say working all hours was a working class thing. Again, read properly. I said the view that not working 40+ hours a week means you're lazy (a view expressed by several posters here) is something I find very working class. My grandparents used to have this view when they were a bit younger. This idea of 'grafting'. Why on earth would you do that when you could have a better quality of life working far fewer hours? Working long hours doesn't make you a better person. It doesn't mean you're contributing more to society. It doesn't mean you're living in the real world. It means you've chosen a job where you have to work long hours. Your choice. I think some people are both envious and have a martyr complex. Good for you if you choose to work 50 hours a week. I've chosen to work less because I can and because it's better for my health. I still contribute the same or more in taxes and have time to give back to society in the form of charity work.

MY comment patronising and ignorant? Have you seen what people have been saying about TEFL? Secondary school teachers who teach their own language are NOT trained to teach languages to non-natives. That is a FACT. It's just not what they do. Same as how I'm not trained to teach English literature. I'm not saying one profession is better or worse, I'm saying they are very different, which is a fact that seems to escape a lot of people on here. I get the odd e-mail from a parent with a child in an international school who needs extra help in 'English'. It usually turns out that they mean English as an academic subject. That's not what I do, so I refer them to a friend who does teach in an international school and knows the syllabus and texts they're studying.

Me neither. I don't think anyone is saying you can get rich from TEFL. You can make a fairly decent living if you choose the right country and take on business/exam classes (as I said, I'm earning more than the average salary here), but nobody goes into it for the money. I know I could be earning far more in the UK as a secondary teacher of French or Spanish. I have no interest in doing that because I don't like teenagers. The money wouldn't be worth it for me because I'd be unhappy. I don't begrudge my secondary teacher friends their salary and benefits and likewise they don't begrudge me my free time, flexibility and ability to travel. We made our decisions based on what we wanted from life.

Absolutely. You couldn't pay me enough to teach a class of 30 teenagers. I have total respect for those who do and I think they deserve every penny. Not that TEFL isn't 'real teaching' but the big draw for me was that most students WANT to learn and that classes are reasonable sizes. I can focus on actually teaching as opposed to spending half the lesson on discipline and crowd control.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

You are right about the term Real World but its something that many teachers are not aware of as they go from school to college to school again and never have the opportunity of working in the normal environment outside the institution of a school or college. It is not their fault but something that makes teachers very different than the rest of society.
And with reference to the quality of teaching please read this..
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-20083249

More than half the teachers I have known smoke dope, at least at the weekend and a friend in Bristol even buys his from a teacher who supplements his income by selling it!

They are not the only professionals who use drugs before you say it but it is a sad reflection on them.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Must have been an interesting school you went to! :lol:

I think you are quite wrong to generalise about the teaching profession like this. Like in any profession, there are a few who aren't up to the job but they don't last long. Most are incredibly dedicated and overworked, many are suffering from chronic stress, and if they enjoy a smoke at the weekend so what, it's better than SSRIs.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

No more harmful than alcohol, either - how many of those who regard smoking dope with horror don't consider alcohol to be a drug? I caught a few minutes of a TV programme about the emergency services last night, apparently alcohol-related illnesses cost the NHS in the UK £2.7 bn per year, not to mention the alcohol-fuelled violence caused. I don't indulge myself, btw, never felt the need, but I know lots of people who do, and have been doing for 40 years or more. They are not addicts, on benefits, or hippie drop-outs, and yes, quite a number of them are professionals of various kinds, including teachers.

And the highly paid professionals with their coke habits, what about them? It's what enables many City bankers and lawyers to function for the stupidly long hours they put in, although how effective it makes them is debatable. Might account for some of the reckless and irresponsible things the bankers do with other people's money.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Unfortunately, you're wrong, far too many poor teachers are in the system, it's almost impossible to get rid of them. A neighbour of mine had the famous "golden goodbye" at the age of 55, any guesses as to what he is doing now, supply teacher in the same school 3 days a week earning a fortune.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Then they should take a closer look at why they are under-performing.

A lot of teachers are working under conditions no-one should have to put up with. My sister-in-law teaches in a large inner city comprehensive and she is on the point of burn-out, with governments changing the curriculum every five minutes, unrealistic expectations from parents who think their little angels can do no wrong, students bringing knives and guns into school and having to be searched at the gate, deputy heads breathing down their necks concerned more with their league tables than what's good for the students ...

I wouldn't do it for any amount of money.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

[QUOTE=MoonBaby;10364261]I didn't say working all hours was a working class thing. Again, read properly. I said the view that not working 40+ hours a week means you're lazy (a view expressed by several posters here) is something I find very working class. My grandparents used to have this view when they were a bit younger. This idea of 'grafting'. Why on earth would you do that when you could have a better quality of life working far fewer hours? Working long hours doesn't make you a better person. It doesn't mean you're contributing more to society. It doesn't mean you're living in the real world. It means you've chosen a job where you have to work long hours. Your choice. I think some people are both envious and have a martyr complex. Good for you if you choose to work 50 hours a week. I've chosen to work less because I can and because it's better for my health. I still contribute the same or more in taxes and have time to give back to society in the form of charity work.
QUOTE

Well good for you! Medal on the way. People make choices in a free country don't they? Your choice isn't better just different.

Your grandparents view may not have been typical.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

That's as maybe, but you said bad teachers don't last long, I'm saying it's difficult, if not impossible to get rid of them. We have a deputy head of a large boy's secondary modern in the family, I'm well aware of the hours and dedicated work that some put in, but as in any other profession there will be those that under perform, those that are just happy to turn up and take the money. Especially if they know the chances of them being sacked is almost zero.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I'm very happy with my life in Spain. I've got enough to be able to have a decent lifestyle but no different to my UK life just more sun.
No need to work no dependants and speak reasonably fluent Spanish.
So life is good.
Would I think of relocating if I had kids and needed work for me and wife, no Spanish, no job lined up? No way Jose.
That's not being negative or whatever it's telling it like it is.
Lots of Brits I know want to go back, got no job or failing business, trapped in houses on sale for years now at half the price they paid.
That's reality. Sun and cheap booze don't make a good life when you've no job or prospects and money is running out..no welfare state safety net as in UK.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

So if thats not generalising what is? When we state an opinion we are only ever drawing from our own experience, from what we have read and from the opinions of others. That does not necessarily mean we are correct as all that information may be distorted but when it comes to talking about teachers I feel I have enough experience to say what I do say about them. Most are NOT dedicated and if they are suffering from stress then they are not doing the job proplerly with the right support.
Working with young people is tiring as they often have twice as much energy as adults but it is in a very different environment than the world outisde the educational establishment. It is more controlled and therefore more stable.
As far as paying their way..just read this
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20157878

We all can remember the good and the bad teachers in our lives but how many is that from the total we have met..very few!

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I would say that isn't exclusive to Spain, applies to most countries around the world. There will always be people who drag the kids off to a foreign land on a whim then wonder why they havent carried out the preparation, the kids hate it because they left their friends behind and have difficulty making new ones. The parents haven't got jobs, think it will be a doddle cos they think they have so much to offer these "backward" countries.
Then when it goes pear shaped they blame everyone else but themselves, struggle to get home and live bitter lives ever after.

The reality is that Spain doesn't have the sun 365, it has been raining here almost continuously for about 2 weeks or so with plenty more forecast. And it will be hitting lows of down to -10 in a month or so. The day/night temp changes can be 15degs or more.
Yes the booze is cheap, but some of the spirits here are rubbish or an odd acquired taste.
The rules of living are different here, but then it isn't England, even if you do fly the flag from your balcony.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Great Post

This is so true. We are moving end of next year..pension, income sorted, funds in the bank, will own property. If we had to work had kids etc there is no way i would go.

[QUOTE=Domino;10366436]I would say that isn't exclusive to Spain, applies to most countries around the world. There will always be people who drag the kids off to a foreign land on a whim then wonder why they havent carried out the preparation, the kids hate it because they left their friends behind and have difficulty making new ones. The parents haven't got jobs, think it will be a doddle cos they think they have so much to offer these "backward" countries.
Then when it goes pear shaped they blame everyone else but themselves, struggle to get home and live bitter lives ever after.
]The reality is that Spain doesn't have the sun 365, it has been raining here almost continuously for about 2 weeks or so with plenty more forecast. And it will be hitting lows of down to -10 in a month or so. The day/night temp changes can be 15degs or more

[COLOR="Red"]Yep one of the things we are focusing on is the cost of heating in the winter, although I want to live in the mountains husband is saying about these costs.[/COLOR

The rules of living are different here, but then it isn't England, even if you do fly the flag from your balcony.

LOL Thank god for that... one of the main reasons for moving is to experience something different.. if I want the UK I would stay here
:thumbsup::thumbsup:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

[QUOTE=mogsmum;10366474]Great Post

This is so true. We are moving end of next year..pension, income sorted, funds in the bank, will own property. If we had to work had kids etc there is no way i would go.

Yes, heating is a big problem, believe even Malaga had frost last winter. The Canaries it ain't. Based on our experiences from 3 years in rentals I would suggest people look at their overall energy policy, with the electricity being expensive, mains gas not being something obtainable in most places here in Andalucia, although I believe some parts of Granada have it. But butano is something that is regulated and its €16 something for a bottle, which we find lasts us for about 10 days in the middle of winter
But the house construction gives us hot in summer cold in winter, primarily due to the design as much as the construction.
Problem is we tend to be less concerned with energy saving in the UK but here it has to be.

As to living up a mountain, we had that near the top of the list - but now at the bottom. Having visited houses where the recent rains mean we had difficulty getting up or down a 45deg mud track, the wells seem "iffy" at times, especially as there is no mains water as a backup. Electricity - well we have had at least one mains trip or voltage drop a day every day for the last 2 weeks. I am now buying a UPS to protect the computer, another additional cost. But then if you are really off the grid and have photovoltaic - just remember they are a "must" to local and non-local thieves, and at around €25k for a new system not a small item.

hth

Re: Moving to Spain
 

You came to this forum to ask questions and advice primarily,but you don't want to hear the truth!,so YOU are thick in that regards!,if you do not listen to the many who have given their time/advice,and acting in a childish and immature behaviour and response to me is very SAD!,you show your true colours,you will FAIL for sure with your attitude.
To pick you up on the point I was not being BEING rude but HONEST,truth sometimes hurts,cuts deep,people are starving,homeless,without jobs,and without little help,and you BRAG about having millions in the bank,GROW UP get a life and stop wasting peoples time and advice here!.
I work for 3 charities and give my time free and help disadvantaged kids who have been abandoned and treated badly,what do you intend to do when you come here?,NOTHING by the sounds of it!,as for "a relaxed, worry-free life",get real their is NO SUCH THING!:thumbdown:

AS FOR ME FAILING BEEN HERE 6 YEARS DOING VERY WELL,I'LL LEAVE THAT TO YOU - YOU'LL SURELY SUCCEED AT IT VERY WELL!:rofl::WITH YOUR ROSE TINTEN GLASSES!:eek:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

That is pretty hypocritical

So you say that everyone is doing badly, starving, abandoing children etc... except you?

If you can do well, then why can't the OP? :huh:

You are giving just one side of Spain, yes, there is a big problem at the moment with unemployment and people losing their homes. But that doesnt go to say that everyone lives like that. Most people are going along just fine