Re: Moving to Spain
 

Hi..You asked the question and sorry if you do not like the answers but if they appear negative and lacking in encouragement it is probably because the people who are writing have experience of living in Spain and are trying to offer a realistic appraisal of life here. The chances are you will take no notice ( and why should you?) and come to Spain whatever anyone writes but bear in mind you will also be one of the many who go back.
I am not writing this because I want it all for myself as we do not stay in Spain for the winter now because the weather is so poor..you are welcome to it.
:fingerscrossed:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

:thumbsup::nod:

paris

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Actually, we tried to work it out. Five years ago we put our UK house on the market for £425,000. We were looking to buy something in the region of 300,000€ in Spain. We didnt because our UK house wouldnt sell due to the "almost" start of the recession, so we rented both ends - UK and Spain. At the time I wasnt happy, I wanted to buy in Spain! But here we are now, back in the UK and in our UK house!

Five years on and some of the houses in Spain we were looking at for 300,000€ are still on the market and are priced at around 150,000 - 175,000€. Our UK house is still valued at £425,000! and by coincidence the exchange rate is more or less the same now as it was then. So, had we have bought in Spain 5 years ago and then needed to return.........

Jo xxx

Re: Moving to Spain
 

You might have a job convincing these people that have been waiting years to get treatment. Many here have been waiting 700-800 days, some 1,000 days. Yes, 3 years!
http://www.diariosur.es/v/20121016/m...-20121016.html

Re: Moving to Spain
 

This is a GREAT thread for one planning to move to Spain! Keep it coming.:thumbsup:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

There ARE a lot of negatives about moving to Spain, but it's not all doom and gloom. I think some people forget just what the UK is like. It's hardly paradise there either.

Sure, the welfare culture is great, but only if you're actually on or entitled to benefits. It's not so nice for the people paying into the system. I wasn't entitled to (and didn't want) a penny from the government. I just wanted to work and support myself, but it was getting more and more difficult. I could barely live on my wages, once 25% was taken out for tax. I wasn't guaranteed any hours at work (which is common in TEFL in the UK), so if there weren't many students, I didn't get paid. If a student cancelled at the last minute, I didn't get paid. I didn't get paid when my granny died and I needed to go to the funeral, for any bank holidays or when the school closed for Christmas and Easter. I finally left because our rent went up to over £1000 (for a very average one-bed flat in a very average area) and our monthly Oyster cards went up to over £160 and I couldn't be sure that I'd make enough money to pay for them. To add insult to injury, most of the other tenants in our block were on benefits and didn't work, so kept us up until 4am on weeknights with their noise, covered the shared garden with beer cans, crisp packets and even dirty needles so we couldn't use it and the police turned a blind eye to it all.

In Spain, I get a monthly salary, regardless of how much I teach or how many bank holidays there were that month, my rent is very reasonable in comparison to my salary, travel costs are much lower and my neighbours behave like normal human beings. There are plenty of nice things to do for free (endless plazas and cobbled streets for walks, nearby beach) and you can sit on a plaza chatting with friends and have a few beers without it costing a fortune. There are several local fruterias with delicious, fresh fruit and veg 1-2 mins from our flat, so we always have cheap, nutritious meals and my mood is always better because the sun is almost always shining, even right now, going into November.

All in all, our quality of life is higher here and I'm much less stressed. The wages are low, but so are outgoings (if you're careful), so I'm as well off as I was in the UK. I think it is possible to come here, but only if you're realistic and have a realistic chance of finding work in your field. There's loads of work for qualified, experienced English teachers - I'm turning down work every day. Bar work or anything that like - no chance. I think people on here are pretty helpful as long as you're not another person saying 'Fed up of UK weather, want to move to Spain, have 4 kids and a dog, don't speak any Spanish, don't have any qualifications, what are my chances?'

Re: Moving to Spain
 

So to sum up, in Spain the sun always shines, you get paid for doing next to nothing, fruit, meals etc cheap as chips, accommodation dirt cheap, whilst UK is horrendously expensive and full of drop outs on benefits. Smart move, sounds like you definitely made the right move.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Of course the two pieces of information missing from the post by Moonbaby is where in the 'UK' he lived and why he was working at a school teaching without a contract (perhaps because TEFL is not seen a a quality qualification in the same way as a degree would be?)

Re: Moving to Spain
 

That was MY reality in the UK and this is MY reality in Spain. I never said I get paid for doing next to nothing, I said I get paid for official holidays, a luxury I never had back in the UK. I don't know why so many people seem so determined to make the UK sound like paradise compared to Spain. It was a very, very tough place to live for me and I've lived in several countries.

I lived in London. Most schools in London offer 'zero hours contracts', where you're not actually guaranteed any work. That's just the way it is there. I have a degree and a Master's degree, like most of my colleagues back in the UK. A degree is a minimum requirement to work in TEFL in any decent school. It's just supply and demand really - there are always far more qualified teachers than decent teaching positions. I actually had one of the best TEFL jobs going, despite the lack of holiday pay. That's just how the industry is there, it's not the best place to do this job. Hence why I'm finding it much easier in Spain.

I don't understand the animosity. It's as if some people in here actually WANT people to fail? Sorry you don't want to hear it, but for me personally, living in the UK was much tougher than living here. I felt like I was putting so much effort in and getting so little back.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

So perhaps your posting should have gone somewhere along the lines of 'When I worked in London at a language school on a zero hours contract...............'

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I think its not only a case of choosing which country you want to live in and there are good and bad things about both, but also choosing to live in an area that suits what you want and where you are most likely to succeed, this will mean looking at the local infrastructure and services that your family needs now and in the future.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I'm not aware anyone is trying to do anything of the sort, it would seem you're the one trying to make Spain sound the ideal place whilst rubbishing UK. Not sure what sort of teaching job you had, doesn't sound very impressive, my only experience of teaching is my DIL who is deputy head in UK and gets an excellent salary and paid for those long months of holidays when they aren't teaching.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

What's your point, exactly? Moving to Spain worked out well for me. I'm better off. I enjoy my life more. When I posted here and elsewhere looking for advice, I was shot down and told not to bother because there was no work here and I'd get here and realise how much better the UK was. The point is, that's not always true. Far from it. I have more than enough teaching work and I've even managed to find translation work. My quality of life is much better here.

I suppose if I'd had the luxury of a secure, well-paid job and had been able to buy my own house/run a car in the UK, it would have been ridiculous to have come to Spain. I don't know any young person who can even dream of having any of that. Most of my friends are still living with their parents and hugely underemployed. I can only imagine that most people posting here are middle-aged and oblivious to the reality of being young in the UK. Used to a lifestyle that's now more or less unobtainable for most.

agoreira, I'm not 'rubbishing' the UK at all (how laughable, is it only alright when it's the other way around?). I'm telling you what my life was like there. I'm sorry you find my previous position 'unimpressive' but you clearly know little to nothing about TEFL. It's nothing like secondary school teaching. It's teaching English to adults. I'm actually better educated and better qualified than most UK secondary school teachers, I just have no interest in teaching children or teenagers. It's not a well-paid career in the UK (it can be in other countries), but it is rewarding and interesting.

I just find a lot of people here incredibly out of touch and oblivious to the realities of life in the UK for most young people. I love the UK, I love visiting and spending time there. I just don't see the point in living there at the moment. I have the same disposable income here, much better weather, less stressful lifestyle, better food and I get to practise my Spanish every day while working towards sitting the DELE exam. If I'd listened to any of the 'advice' I received, I'd still be in London.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I wouldn't take it all too seriously - I didn't get involved in any expat forums until well after I'd bought my house in Spain, but when I did and said I was planning to move over here permanently, I was told life would be much more expensive than I thought, my money would run out and I'd end up having to go back to the UK, I'd roast in the summer and freeze in the winter, life in Spain is simply impossible without air conditioning and a swimming pool, I'd be ripped off left right and centre, in short that I had no idea what I was doing. Some of those doing the telling are exactly the same people still peddling the same message.

And I'm still here six years to the week later, still fine and still enjoying life.
Although it seems in some ways insensitive to say it, in view of the desperately hard time millions of Spanish people are having.

However, you are right. If you have a skill that is in demand, you obviously can still make a go of coming here. I know nothing about TEFL, but even in my area which is not a major city, have seen at least 3 new language schools open within the last year and I'm noticing many more local people trying out English phrases on me so they're obviously learning and wanting to practice. I for one am pleased that you are getting on so well, good luck to you.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I think if there was one job that has been touted as being available in Spain in this forum it was TEFL teaching. In fact Supersteve has been banging that drum for a long, long time.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Thanks - I just think it's crazy that some people are like a broken record - posting about how hard and awful life is in Spain and how the UK is so much easier, without paying attention to people's circumstances. I know what you mean about not wanting to be insensitive - I am well aware that I have it much better than a lot of Spanish people. I'm well aware of how unfair that can seem to some of the locals. I just happen to have the one job they can't do and skills that are in great demand at the moment (teaching and translating into English). I don't know how long that'll last and I have no plans to stay here forever, but for now, it's a decent enough way to make a living and have a better lifestyle. I'm glad it's also worked out well for you!

Well, that's not the message I got, here or elsewhere.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

TEFL qualifications are written on toilet paper. Unless you have a valid teaching qualification like PGCE then any reputable language school won't employ you. Whatever you say most jobs are crap, no contract, no holiday pay and around 15 hours per week

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Out of interest where do you get this evidence from. I am aware of 2/3 people who have completed TEFL course to earn income..while they travel...I am not saying full time.. have no idea about holiday pay etc. not necessarily in Spain, neither have teaching degrees, I think one works in China at the moment. I was of the understanding that if you have a TEFL certificate then you should be able to find work, in various countries and as I say I assumed it would be part time and not guaranteed. But then again I have not tried, I presume from the fact that you state that the qualification is written on "toilet Paper" you have first hand experience. As I say I don't know but you obviously have a different experience

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Out of interest, my nephew and his wife both taught English in China for 18 months without teaching degrees or any TEFL training at all

Jo xxx

Re: Moving to Spain
 

yes this was my understanding and what I have been told, :unsure:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I was just thinking, it must be almost a year since the Fleet was supposedly about to set sail to rescue us all from a fate worse than death. Anybody know what happened to them, did they take a wrong turn or just get tied up with other matters in Gibraltar?:rofl:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

That's simply not true. There's no need whatsoever to have a PGCE to teach English to adults. That's not what PGCEs are for. To work for a reputable language school anywhere in the world, you need a degree, a CELTA (a perfectly 'valid' teaching certification), possibly a DELTA, experience, good references and most importantly, you need to be able to teach.

The industry in the UK is not good for teachers, because of the sheer numbers of highly qualified, native teachers there. The standard of teaching is often very high, but not backed up with job security and good pay. Elsewhere, the conditions and pay can be decent. I had interviews at lots of schools when I arrived in Spain and the vast majority offered full time contracts and holiday pay. I have a good CV, good references and qualifications. Perhaps some chancer with a weekend online TEFL certificate and no experience would end up working in a horrible school, but there are plenty of decent jobs for serious teachers.

A lot of people seem to think TEFL is walking into a classroom, completely unprepared and having a chat about what you got up to at the weekend. Tomorrow, I have an in-company Business English class in the morning and a CPE preparation course in the afternoon. It's not backpacker work.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

The 'teaching' work in China isn't really what most of us would consider TEFL. It's more babysitting and working through course books or pure conversation. Most European employers don't count teaching in Asia as experience.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I dont know, all I do know is that they planned and conveyed English grammar and language to Chinese youngsters, prepared homework (maybe thats babysitting???), were paid and most importantly (for them) had an absolute blast!!!


Jo xxx

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Good for you... you have sorted that out...by the way i have PM'd you. It is clear that you have knowledge regarding this subject

Clearly you are a teacher, and obviously qualified to do what you do. I am glad to see that you are doing well and that you have settled into life in Spain. I look forward to my visits and my eventually my move and hope to emulate your success.
Keep me posted
Best wishes
:thumbsup:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Everything you say rings true to me, and coincides with what other people I know who are teaching English in Spain have said.

But there are always people who know better, even though they've never been near a classroom since they left school ... ;)

Re: Moving to Spain
 

thats interesting to know

LOL how very true, obviously a lot of toilet paper in spain

Re: Moving to Spain
 

TEFL is mainly and probably always will be a job for backpackers and transients:rolleyes:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Says a lot about the kind of people you know then, doesn't it?

I didn't meet many backpackers when I was teaching in the European institutions in Brussels, nor in any of my other workplaces. In one of them, I was the only teacher in the room without an Oxbridge degree.

You clearly know better, though, so go ahead and think your prejudiced thoughts and carry on spreading false information around the Internet. The more people who hold your view, the more decent jobs around for me. :lol:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

The trouble with TEFL is that its so easy to get and IME anyone with the right money can have one after only a 6 week course. Proper teachers go to uni and study hard, which feels like more of a commitment and a better understanding

Jo xxx

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Tell that to the British Council then.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Again, more false information. You need a degree to do the CELTA course in most cases and even if you manage to do it without one, most good schools expect a degree + CELTA. It's a tough course as well, with loads of assignments and teaching practice. You don't just pay for it and get it. Two people out of ten failed when I did mine and I imagine more of us would have if we hadn't had a background in languages and linguistics. You also don't just get good jobs because you have the certificate. I've had to do practical tests for most of the jobs I've had. Think of a CELTA as a minimum requirement for a good teacher, a screening tool, rather than the only thing you need.

The trouble with TEFL is other people's ignorance, to be honest. Sure, there are some 'backpacker' type TEFL teachers who buy a weekend course on the internet and teach 50 kids at a time in Thailand - that doesn't mean all of TEFL is like that. There are less qualified and less experienced people in EVERY profession. I could have gone and worked in a fee-paying/ independent school in England when I was 21, having done just my first degree. I'm sure that's 'proper' teaching in your opinion, yet I was much younger, much less educated and much less experienced.

The PGCE doesn't make you a 'proper' teacher. It's a postgraduate course designed to teach you how to teach kids. There's no need to do it if you're going to teach English to adults. A lot of what's taught in the PGCE doesn't apply to adults.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Saw this in another forum, this family seem to have got it right and loving their life in Spain. Nice video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=osofly_Prxg

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Excellent - good grasp of the language too - I would be very surprised if she achieved this in 3 years!

Re: Moving to Spain
 

They say they moved to Spain 6 years ago but came to Asturias to look for a place where people spoke Castellano rather than Catalan

She speaks good Spanish but is quite deliberate rather than very fluid. Anyway, it is a very good level and one that should be achievable after living here for 6 years - and they are very much an "integrated" family!

Re: Moving to Spain
 

I'm loving reading this. I'm loving the wonderful passive aggression that some people on this forum are so fond of using. I keep asking myself if all this pent up aggression is some kind of envy, because someone else has found success in doing something that is assumed to be too easy.

"Proper teachers go to uni and study hard" - really? Wow, I studied my TEFL at University...and it wasn't easy. In fact teachers with PGCEs, the university, studying hard qualification you seem to be talking about, found the course far harder...

To clarify things TEFL is not something that anyone with a bit of money can do. For a start, you have to have a degree to do it. Of course there are phoney weekend courses that you can attend, which produce teachers which desperate schools that are not accredited or affiliated to the British Council, RSA etc, would employ. But these courses are much like degrees that you can buy online without ever having entered a lecture hall. If that's what you want to waste your money on, so be it, but you'll only ever be able to teach children games or desperate housewives some basic grammar, like Jo's friends. Once again, there are good and bad schools employing people with good and not so good qualifications.

But this has nothing to do with PGCE qualifications. I have taught Business English to the Dutch Minister of Defence. If I'd turned up at my language school with a PGCE in Secondary school level English, knowing how to teach Shakespeare's sonnets, or Primary education, I'm not sure my employer would have been keen on sending me to prepare an MP on delivering presentations in English to lecture halls of hundreds of European MPs.

And as for the hallowed PGCE, when I did my TEFL course, at University, there were two PGCE qualified teachers, who arrogantly thought they would sail through the course that would allow them more kudos in teaching in international schools. One of them failed the course, the other got the lowest grade, which just allowed them to pass... and shuffled off back to their Secondary school classroom, humiliated at the appalling lessons they had delivered.

I've seen primary school teachers in action nowadays, spending mornings reading with my children's class. My children attend international schools, as we travel a lot. Most teachers are organised, lovely, welcoming teachers. But would I want them delivering lessons on a Business English level to adult clients? Never.

I've heard of a primary school teacher at my children's British school, grab a struggling child's school work, drag them to the front of the class, and use them as an example of how the rest of the class shouldn't study. That's actually cruel and a failure to manage. I cannot imagine someone like that being capable of handling a class of business men.

Some school teachers are lucky to have a set curriculum to follow, as given space to use their own ideas, I'm sure they may actually melt and cry. They follow a set regime of curriculum set lessons, which from one school to the next have an identical flavour and content. A good TEFLA teacher can deliver lessons to students from a wide variety of backgrounds, needs and levels, changing course content and structure accordingly.

Teaching English as a Foreign Language is not a walk in the park. The poor qualifications that you can buy online or receive after a weekend course give TEFL a bad name. But those courses would never get you a job in a good school. And if you did manage to blag your way into one, you'd be screwed the minute you had to stand up in front of a classroom of politicians, CEOs or Project Managers.

Stop bad-mouthing an industry all of you negative, aggressive people know nothing about. Go back to criticising Spain and your neighbours and leave the successful teachers to their jobs.

Man, this forum is full of nasty people.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Teaching English as a Foreign Language is not a walk in the park. The poor qualifications that you can buy online or receive after a weekend course give TEFL a bad name. But those courses would never get you a job in a good school. And if you did manage to blag your way into one, you'd be screwed the minute you had to stand up in front of a classroom of politicians, CEOs or Project Managers.

Well, we agree. What I was refering to. Seems everyone and their Mother has these qualifications (:confused:) on the CDS. I did some teaching when I was at Sevilla Uni...I was crap actually, having a Spanish degree and English as a first language in no way qualifies someone to teach English:nod:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Of course it's envy. There's no other explanation, really. It must be tough to fail somewhere and have to go home and then hear how successful other people have been there.


Some people just don't seem able to grasp the difference between teaching English as a school subject and teaching the English language. I don't think my secondary school English teachers had even heard of the present perfect or a reduced relative clause.

One of the people who failed on my CELTA course had a PGCE and had already taught in international schools abroad. Her grammar was shocking.

Agreed.

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Why would it be envy:confused: Teachers jobs are not exactly the pinnacle of success are they. I thought it people did those jobs cos they couldn't crack it elsewhere in a real job:confused:

Re: Moving to Spain
 

Crikey, I am not reading the entire thread that for some reason has become a teacher discussion group of some sort?

I usually live in Italy but had 6 weeks in Sevilla end of August into October

Bluntly, Spain is not a patch on Italy for me anyway.

There is so much poverty and its in your face poverty, we had people going through the bins daily lots of people

Compared to Italy, there are many drunks
Compared to Italy the food although way better than the UK is not as good

I was in Sevilla which has some lovely sights but no sea
The places near the sea are tacky and whitewash is god awful to look at
Saw some ghost towns clearly just abandoned.

I cannot see why anyone would want to live there if they had been to my part of the world, its a bit of a slum. I am talking about Sevilla,malaga, cadiz and most places in between..

Oh yes I almost forgot
Hire car was PUSHED into an illegal spot and towed 340euro!

The car on another day also had its stereo nicked!

Italy is better in every way EXCEPT there is more litter here!

ciao