me me

That is right, well explained.

JLFS

me me

Chaval or chavala is not demeaning, it can be used in affectionate way. You can call an old man a chaval.

Rapaz or rapaza is the same.

Regards,

JLFS

Veleta

Many words change their meaning over the passage of time, and the original meaning becomes redundant. 'Gay' being an obvious example. Vulgar used to mean 'popular', manufacture used to mean 'made by hand' and not by machine, awful used to mean 'full of awe'. But these original meanings mean nothing today.

I think the origin of the word Guiri is irrelevant now. The word can be used both as an insult or affectionately and I'm sure someone with half a brain would be able to tell the difference between the two. If someone calls me a puta guiri, I understand they don't like me. On the other hand if they call me La Guirizana, it's meant to be affectionate.

From the DRAE:
guiri.(Acort. del vasco guiristino, cristino).1. m. coloq. Ál. tojo (ǁ planta papilionácea).
2. com. Nombre con que, durante las guerras civiles del siglo XIX, designaban los carlistas a los partidarios de la reina Cristina, y después a todos los liberales, y en especial a los soldados del gobierno.
3. com. coloq. Turista extranjero. La costa está llena de guiris.
4. com. coloq. Miembro de la Guardia Civil.

There's loads of very funny articles on the net about how the Spanish view the 'guiris'....in fact in my quick google search I found several humorous articles but none that were just plain insulting. Here's an example: (in spanish of course). http://inciclopedia.wikia.com/wiki/Guiri

Don't know if I can get away with posting the article but I'll have a try:
* Suelen comprar sombreros mexicanos en las tiendas de souvenirs, producto típico español por excelencia.
* Frecuentemente calzan sandalias con calcetines, para gran alborozo de los nativos.
* Portan cámaras caras, para gran alborozo de los quinquis.
* Al menor contacto con el sol, adquieren lo que se conoce como moreno centollo.
* Acompañan el cocido con Coca Cola.
* Cuando visitan un restaurante,todos sus aparatos tecnologicos avanzados encima de la mesita (movil,camara,mp3 y demas objetos desconocidos para un español)para llamar la atencion de los niños gitanillos de 8 años que pasan por la plaza
* Si sufren un robo de los gitanillos, se quejan al ayuntamiento y reciben una indemnización doble, para comprarse más aparatos tecnológicos, seguir poniéndolos en la mesa y sufrir otro hurto para volver a recibir una indemnización y así hasta el infinito (y más allá...)
* Cuando visitan un lugar público somos los demás los que tenemos que hablar su idioma (si hablamos en español van al ayuntamiento a ganar su correspondida paga) y cuando somos los españoles los que van a guirilandia hay que hablar por los cojones de Cristo en su idioma. ¿UN POCO APAÑAITOS, NO?
* Se quejan de todo,cualquier cosa absurda:
Oh my god the bitch is man! Ou nou señouwrita mi bed nou mide fourty metres cuadrupedos multiplicadous pour zerty centimetres sopeaso de bitch
* Otra de sus peculiaridades es creer que los cimientos de nuestros edificios estan construidos con aceitunitas y tortillitas como hormigón armado, incluso pueden creer que durante nuestra vida diaria vamos vestidos de traje de luces y vestidos de puntitos blancos, revestidos de un tono magenta que recuerda al de la feria de Perpiñan y que habra unas 45 plazas de toros en cada ciudad (ojala no hubiese ninguna, amigos)
* Fotografian todo y se sorprenden de todo (frase típica: "Oh un farolillo!!"), incluso ven cosas que tu no habias visto pasando todos los dias por ahí.

Fredbargate

Whats wrong with saying someone comes from the West Of Gloucester

Lenox

It means 'foreign ar**hole'. So I agree with Fortaleza. Yes, it depends on its usage and intention, but it's an insult.
It would be much odder if there wasn't a handy word to describe... white (or pink) camera toting tourists - or - foreign residents in shorts gabbing away in English - or - (fill in here your own favourite cliché).

fionamw

While clearly the predominant use of words makes a difference to their commonly accepted meaning, I would question that it means the original meaning becomes irrelevant or redundant. Gay being a particularly good example. People do still use the word in its original meaning, and find themselves instantly reminded (either by themselves, pulling themselves up to find an alternative) or by guffawing friends, that they've made a questionable choice.
As to the many other words that applies to (in English - I wouldn't presume to do so for Spanish), don't ask my poor memory to come up with them, but there are loads which are rarely used but that definitely does not mean their original use is now either irrelevant or redundant. It just requires, as Fortaleza was explaining, that you use the word with half a mind on what it either used to mean, or now means.

cricketman

I asked my Spanish friends last night and they all said it wasnt insulting though it can be used in an insulting way. As with all language, if the person who uses the word does not mean it as an insult, and the person who receives it doesnt either...then what is the problem!

Maybe Lenox and Forteleza should wear a t-short "No me llames guiri" or something. So Spanish people can be made aware of their delicate nature

fionamw

I think we're at risk of going round in ever decreasing circles til we end up disappearing up our own misconceptions.
I don't think Fortaleza or Lenox were displaying a delicate nature, merely highlighting for anyone who didn't know, or hadn't thought much about it, that the word guiri has various connotations. If I understand correctly, and I think (hope!) I do, it's as follows:
guiri: explanatory (historical derogatory meaning)
guiri: derogatory (early/usually accepted original meaning)
guiri: light-hearted derogatory (as used between friends, eg calling a mate wanker)
guiri: generic, not really derogatory but capable of derogatory interpretation (taff, yank, etc)

So: as long as anyone hearing the word has (if relevant) heard the whole conversation, context and understands not only the relationship between those speaking but - more importantly - is aware of the possible relevance of the original meaning, no-one's going to misunderstand or be misunderstood.

cricketman

good explanation

hitchw

In my experience, and in the experience of family and friends, Guiri although in some cases is used in a joking manner, is an insult. Similar to black kids calling each other the n word (one of the ugliest words in existence) is used as a term of familiarity, but if used by another race is deemed an insult of an epic scale. I would never be happy to be called a guiri, i dont think it is remotely funny, and will always see it as an insult.

I was under the impression that chulo was meant as cheeky as in, que no seas chulo... sure that doesnt mean, dont be a pimp...!

Chaval, never imagined this could be used as an insult, always thought of this as lad or chap or something like that...

spain

agree

Relampago

Never in my life, I had listened the word " guiri ". I listened this word the first time in Córdoba, when I made the military service. And it can mean this, its origin is not necessarily an insult, a word that has its origin in the Carlist wars, and making reference to a word difficult of to understand (I don't know how will be " paki " in UK or " sudlander " in Germany):

http://www.muyinteresante.es/index.p...-palabra-guiri
I have not understood this part of your comment a lot. You explain this to me

me me

chaval means lad, not an insult at all.
Chulo as an adjective can mean lots of different things, but chulo the noun is pimp.
Lots of words have more than one meaning, like chulo, etc.

regards, JLFS

fionamw

You can know a word and use it innocently without realising that it may have, or have had, other less pleasant connotations.

Relampago

Depending on the context of the situation, meanings of " chulo "...

1) Something attractiveness, beautiful, superb, with charisma

2) Boastful

3) The man that " protects " and live of the prostitutes