British Expats - A Life in the UK or Spain?

British Expats (https://britishexpats.com/forum/)

- Spain (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/)

- - A Life in the UK or Spain? (https://britishexpats.com/forum/spain-75/life-uk-spain-653952/)

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 8327130)

US, Canada and Australia all have had or continue to have large scale immigration. And while some of it is point based, there are large numbers who have migrated based on family reunification and refugee status. While they have been hit by a recession, they have all fared better than the countries you mention. You are looking for a causal effect between immigration and recession, but there is none.

Yes you're right, immigrants have nothing to do with the recession. As I explained before they help economic growth (of the country, not the individual!).

Not sure the countries you mentioned have faired any better than the UK and Spain though!? The US has suffered terribly economically over the past 2 years. They are growing now, but their recession started earlier.

They have entire cities that are essentially economically bust and have been turned into virtual warzones like Detroit. Where 5 bed room houses are being sold by the banks for $500 so they dont have to protect them from looters and arsonists.

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricketman (Post 8326858)

Right, I forgot. You speak Spanish at work and you never visit an Irish pub or an English fish and chips place?

And you've never been a hassle to the Spanish authorities because of your poor Spanish?

Of course you have and so have so many other British people. Immigrants can be a pain in the a*se, but they also make a country more vibrant and give it more possibilities.

There is NO difference between a British person in Spain and an Afghan, Pakistani or Chinese immigrant in the UK (as long as they are legal). If you can't see that, then I can only presume you are racist? :blink:

snip

I do speak Spanish at work however I cannot write Spanish very well. No IÂ´ve never been in an Irish bar neither here nor in the UK. And NO I have never been a hassle to the Spanish authorities due to my poor Spanish. I think, if IÂ´m interpreting the OP correctly, is that the difference between here and the UK is how the immigrants are allowed to get away with changing the country they have moved into.Are you asking if IÂ´m racist or the OP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jackytoo (Post 8326905)

You say you read the spanish papers etc. but Spain's media is saying much the same. An article in Sur a few days ago reported that Spain has received 5 million immigrants in the past few years. Comments are saying much the same as you have said. I am sure there are a few places in the UK like that but I have a house in both places and spend a lot of time in CDS and the UK. I don't recognise the UK you are refering too where my place is.

There are good and bad areas in all countries, it is what suits you best. Don't make decisions based on what the media says, go take a look at different places, just the same as moving here.

Would you like to see a system in the UK where 157,000 lost their right to unemployment benefit because they had been unemployed for a year. That is what happened in January. (MÃ¡laga province).

Maybe those 5 million immigrants have been a contributition to the "crisis" over here and a possibility as to why Spain is likely to be the last out of the crisis.
I donÂ´t think everyone believes everything the media says but in general do they not report what is going on? If everything they said was false do you seriously think theyÂ´d still be in print?
As for the "right" to unemployment benifits, youÂ´re not entitled to them for life over here either!

Quote:

Originally Posted by steviedeluxe (Post 8326927)

What I find difficult to understand (and perhaps Cricketman can help me here - I do respect his opinions generally) is why the countries that have had the greatest immigration - Spain, the Uk and Ireland - are those that are seemingly worse hit by the recession? We've been told that large migration figures help the economy. Don't get me wrong, I've met talented hard-working migrants both in Spain and the UK, and I hope their presence will pull the respective economies out of the quicksand. I just fear that at the bottom of the pile migrants who are prepared to work for cheap wages merely displace the local workers and prevent wage rises. Great for the employers, but the costs are met by the local families and/or local government. Again, just my opinion and I'll be more than pleased to be proven wrong.

IÂ´d pretty much go along with what youÂ´ve said here also.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LittleWeed (Post 8326937)

What a load of racist, hypocritical twaddle. After all youÂ´re the "pond weed" here (or havenÂ´t you worked that out yet).

Would you care to expand upon that statement?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rachelk (Post 8326963)

Of course, it could be that sweetpete is trying to provoke a response for some reason.

Forgive me for being so distrustful but it wouldn't be the first time a lazy journalist had tried to create a story out of comments provoked on an internet forum.

Realy?:eek: Bloody newbies eh? lol

Quote:

Originally Posted by carter71 (Post 8327036)

I think it's just cause and effect. People migrate to where the easy money is - and the UK and Spain each had their own schemes which made them look like easier money than anywhere else. The trouble with get-rich-quick is it's usually followed by lose-money-faster.

The problems don't stem from the migrants - they were just there to help stoke the boiler whilst everybody cheered. You can't them blame them for the economy running out of fuel!
.

No, the immigrants canÂ´t be blamed for wanting a better life but the government of said countries can be blamed for not controling their internal economies

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricketman (Post 8327049)

Thanks steviedeluxe, I think :D

The similarity in countries like the UK and Spain is that the locals dont want to do the unpleasant low paid jobs, they would rather be in "further education", "sick" or unemployed.

Lots of European countries are pretty similar to UK and Spain regards immigration e.g. France, Germany, the Netherlands. European countries also need immigration as our birth rates are too low to support the pyrimide scheme that is our pensions and capitalism in general. The easiest way to get economic growth is to pack more people into your country i.e. more consumers!

An alternative would be a system like in Norway where unfashionable jobs get a very good salary, but they have their oil fields to help subsidise that. Maybe our bankers should subsidise the fruit pickers and toilet cleaners :)

Another way to look at things is that these jobs became so low paid in the first place due to immigrants being willing to work for appitance which in turn set the stage for either do "this" job for next to nothing or IÂ´ll find another immigrant worse off who is willing to do it for peanuts. Maybe this is why they possibly donÂ´t want to do this work in order to preserve the qwuality of life they had or were aiming for prior to the influx of immigrants.
Immigrants only grow internal economy if they bring something to the game....money or skills that are in shortage. The problem with this is it weakens the economy of the country they left.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdrianTO (Post 8327130)

It is not possible to pin all the blame on immigration causing all economic problems but poor and unskilled immigrants certainly donÂ´t help.

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

two thirds of the world are living in total and absolute squalor, fear and are starving to death, while we're sitting here debating about how awful our countries, lives and governments may or may not be! Or whether we speak Spanish or not - So what??? Put up with the hardship of belonging to a country with a government that cares too much

Jo xxx

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Looks to me like someone created a new id on the board just so that they could launch a racist rant.

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo (Post 8327451)

Spain or England..................we are all indeed very fortunate, yes people are living in squalor, fear and starving to death, thats the way of this imperfect world, which we can all do something about in the way we chose to, whether that be settling so much money per month on wateraid or some such charity like the Kassisi porridge project, or whatever we can.................we can only do our best with whatever means we have but that doesnt mean we have to put our own lives on hold, we live, appreciating what we have and doing all we can to help others not so fortunate..........

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaques2go (Post 8327546)

Hey, I'm just playing "devils advocate", I'm not saying we can do anything to redress the balance or significantly change anything - we cant, even if we did send loadsa money or work with charities - their problems are far deeper than that sadly. Nor am I saying that the British government is wonderful (far from it lol)! I'm simply pointing out that our lives Spain or Britain are really good by comparison and we should be lucky that we can sit and tap away on our PCs without a real care! Count our blessings!!

Jo xxx

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojojojojojojojojojojojo (Post 8327609)

I'm simply pointing out that our lives Spain or Britain are really good by comparison and we should be lucky that we can sit and tap away on our PCs without a real care! Count our blessings!!

Jo xxx

Indeed.................:thumbup:

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

The UK is a haven for immigration and always has been. Everyone always whines about the current 'wave' and then gets over it.

For sure, there have been stupid mistakes, and doubtless it could have been handled better.

As a country tho the UK has benefited massively. Immigrants tend to be bright and driven, and the UK bloodline has been boosted by these immigrants in ways that are not always obvious. More than half of the world beating inventions have come from the UK since WW2, and one college in Cambridge hold more Nobel prizes than the whole of Russia.

That IMO is due in no small amount to the alleged 'mongrelisation' of the British bloodline. Hybrid vigour is a better term, and I doubt we would have done half so well had we followed a policy of banning immigration and focussing on racial purity.

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bil (Post 8327753)

You are starting to sound like Hitler :rofl:

If you know about British history you'll know that there is no such thing as a British bloodline. We are mix of those nationalities and tribes that surround us i.e. Nordic, French, German, Celtic etc. And latterly we have the global commonwealth influence.

Just to repeat, there are no more immigrants in the UK than there are in Spain!!

However, you could say Spain and the UK quite "deserve" all these immigrants since both countries have benefitted so much throughout history of the back of controlling and pillaging other regions of the world.

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by cricketman (Post 8329011)

If you know about British history you'll know that there is no such thing as a British bloodline. We are mix of those nationalities and tribes that surround us i.e. Nordic, French, German, Celtic etc. And latterly we have the global commonwealth influence.

I thought that was exactly the point bil was making

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rachelk (Post 8329070)

I thought that was exactly the point bil was making

Sure, we seem to be on the same wavelength. :) I think its just best stay away from anything to do with genetics or bloodline and immigration. As its a silly argument that confuses stupid people like bnp supporters or basque radical nationalists

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

As a foreigner in another man's country...it doesn't sit comfortably with me.
It's not nice and it's not easy for the majority.

What crosses my mind is that before I left the UK, my daughter was friendly with a little girl from Bulgaria. Just before we left to come to Spain, her mom invited my daughter to her house for tea.

When I went to pick her up, her mom was friendly and offered me a cup of tea in broken English. I really wanted to just pick her up and go home, but I stayed a few minutes.

The mom was alone in the UK with her daughter. They lived in a one bed flat, 3 rooms, one room had a kitchen with a sitting area, a bathroom and the other a tiny bedroom. Both the mom and daughter shared the room. The mom actually slept on the floor. Very sad...

...thinking about it, I wish I had been more friendly and kinder to them. They where struggling. I don't think she had any friends herself (like me now!)

The idea of wanting something better for your kids is so strong that you will travel thousands of miles to an unknown place. Isn't that what we have done?

Yes, the Uk and Spain are havens for many immigrants but they want a better life for their children. Who can blame them for that?

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by rachelk (Post 8329070)

I thought that was exactly the point bil was making

Thank you.

Yep, when it comes to mongrels, mixed bloodlines, call it what you will, the UK has possibly the best claim to the Heinz 57 mixed bloodline trophy.

IMO that makes us the best. Look at the size of the empire we commanded (ignoring for a moment the rights and wrongs of that) and the stamp we have left on the intellectual world.

Our policy of (mostly) being welcoming to others has ensured that free thinkers have had a freer platform to speak on and expand their views.

I thought that everyone was aware of what happens to animals whose bloodlines are too 'pure'.

Everyone in the world, with the possible exception of a few Africans are either immigrants, or the descendants of immigrants.

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bil (Post 8329356)

:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Re: A Life in the UK or Spain?

I am not taking sides here, but don't forget, with EU we all have the right to live in any EU country and 'enjoy' the same benefits (and duties) as those born there.