Historic moment: EU Referendum
Jun 26th 2016, 1:20 pm
#31
Just Joined
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 16
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
"The British Way". "The Bulldog Spirit".
Do you truly equate this to the Second World War? Does it gird the loins to revel in past might, pomp and cicumstance?
The future of humanity, not just that of an island, depends on cooperation, commensense and the shared goal of a peaceful prosperous future.
All of which have been given an isolationist finger.
Is reform required? Of course! Is neoliberalism and austerity a failed project? Of course!
But that should never mean burning your bridges through a "bulldog spirit" which is rank nationalism by another name.
Rant over. Time to move on and deal with it. (And probably time to delete this thread as politics really has no place on the forum).
Do you truly equate this to the Second World War? Does it gird the loins to revel in past might, pomp and cicumstance?
The future of humanity, not just that of an island, depends on cooperation, commensense and the shared goal of a peaceful prosperous future.
All of which have been given an isolationist finger.
Is reform required? Of course! Is neoliberalism and austerity a failed project? Of course!
But that should never mean burning your bridges through a "bulldog spirit" which is rank nationalism by another name.
Rant over. Time to move on and deal with it. (And probably time to delete this thread as politics really has no place on the forum).
The British people gave the right answer last week, and did it the 'British way' ( i.e to stop following the 'EU way')
Under the 'EU way' (I think) we may need to debate a new referendum due to the petition rules.
Under the 'Irish way' the EU discussion dragged on with multiple referenda, till the elite got what they wanted, after being snubbed, taking enough people with them who lost initially.
Sorry to the 48% that lost this. I know how upset you are, and we will definitely have many troubles expected/unexpected. In the course of the next 3 years, or so, many Brexiters will have voter regret. ALREADY our government and opposition is facing a crisis, there is a threat to our United Kingdom. Already both sides are backtracking, and word smithing all the fear/benefits statements they made pre-referendum. Politicians!!
Note there's nothing to say that the EU system, will not have huge problems also. We have been lurching from many over the years, financial crisis, Greece, PIIGS, migration, ERM, etc etc. (Too many to mention) Remain is NOT calm sailing. How many times have we seen on TV, multiple meetings of finance ministers, leaders etc on the steps in Brussels making stressed comments after e.g all night (quote) 'Crisis meetings'!
Ibelieve that we need to get the broom out and clear the mess, and all this is part of a long clean-up process. I don't deny that we will have mess at the end, but I believe it won't be as bad as this one. Lesser of two 'evils'. I also believe there will be some pain on the way.
During pre-electioneering processes we get lots of blather about how wonderful life will be if you vote for them. The reality is that the choice is the the lesser of 'evils'. E.g voting goes 40% to A, 30% to B, 20% to C. The loser number 2 (B) will say 'you didn't get 60% of the vote!'. The winner says 'Ah yes, but you didn't get 70%!!'
But it was a historic decision, perhaps the biggest decision we have ever made, and we are sailing into new waters. But that's our history, we travelled from our small islands, through stormy uncharted waters, with lots of problems and dispute, dissension, debate and even infighting.
By eventually coming together we did pretty well. I hope in time we can put this highly emotional charged period of debate in context with the democratic decision made, and work together for the next chapter of our history.
Its the bulldog spirit....
...its the 'British way'.
I prefer it to the other 'ways'
Jon
Under the 'EU way' (I think) we may need to debate a new referendum due to the petition rules.
Under the 'Irish way' the EU discussion dragged on with multiple referenda, till the elite got what they wanted, after being snubbed, taking enough people with them who lost initially.
Sorry to the 48% that lost this. I know how upset you are, and we will definitely have many troubles expected/unexpected. In the course of the next 3 years, or so, many Brexiters will have voter regret. ALREADY our government and opposition is facing a crisis, there is a threat to our United Kingdom. Already both sides are backtracking, and word smithing all the fear/benefits statements they made pre-referendum. Politicians!!
Note there's nothing to say that the EU system, will not have huge problems also. We have been lurching from many over the years, financial crisis, Greece, PIIGS, migration, ERM, etc etc. (Too many to mention) Remain is NOT calm sailing. How many times have we seen on TV, multiple meetings of finance ministers, leaders etc on the steps in Brussels making stressed comments after e.g all night (quote) 'Crisis meetings'!
Ibelieve that we need to get the broom out and clear the mess, and all this is part of a long clean-up process. I don't deny that we will have mess at the end, but I believe it won't be as bad as this one. Lesser of two 'evils'. I also believe there will be some pain on the way.
During pre-electioneering processes we get lots of blather about how wonderful life will be if you vote for them. The reality is that the choice is the the lesser of 'evils'. E.g voting goes 40% to A, 30% to B, 20% to C. The loser number 2 (B) will say 'you didn't get 60% of the vote!'. The winner says 'Ah yes, but you didn't get 70%!!'
But it was a historic decision, perhaps the biggest decision we have ever made, and we are sailing into new waters. But that's our history, we travelled from our small islands, through stormy uncharted waters, with lots of problems and dispute, dissension, debate and even infighting.
By eventually coming together we did pretty well. I hope in time we can put this highly emotional charged period of debate in context with the democratic decision made, and work together for the next chapter of our history.
Its the bulldog spirit....
...its the 'British way'.
I prefer it to the other 'ways'
Jon
Last edited by retireteed; Jun 26th 2016 at 1:22 pm.
Jun 27th 2016, 7:54 am
#32
Forum Regular
Joined: Aug 2014
Location: Kent
Posts: 126
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
But would those of us 59+ still be expected to pay tax, or being senile preclude us from that obligation?
Last edited by Rosemary; Jun 27th 2016 at 8:14 am. Reason: correcting quote
Jun 27th 2016, 9:15 am
#33
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
That's about right, our generation has destroyed the country for up and coming generations through greed and xenophobia. What do they have to look forward to? It's our generation that has ruined Their chances. Now they are destined to being little islanders as well, I have apologised to my 23 year old son for the idiotic generation which I unfortunately belong to.
Jun 27th 2016, 9:22 am
#34
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 7,749
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
That's about right, our generation has destroyed the country for up and coming generations through greed and xenophobia. What do they have to look forward to? It's our generation that has ruined Their chances. Now they are destined to being little islanders as well, I have apologised to my 23 year old son for the idiotic generation which I unfortunately belong to.
As someone who is living in Spain, I would like to thank the British electorate for voting for Brexit and effectively becoming the canary in the coalmine
However, I sceptically expect no Brexit to take place at all. Boris and friends will go to Brussels and get some minor amendment to immigration law, and come back to Britain singing of success so no need to invoke article 50. That way his friends in the City will be happy
Jun 27th 2016, 9:34 am
#35
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2007
Location: Land of no recession
Posts: 10,718
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
That's about right, our generation has destroyed the country for up and coming generations through greed and xenophobia. What do they have to look forward to? It's our generation that has ruined Their chances. Now they are destined to being little islanders as well, I have apologised to my 23 year old son for the idiotic generation which I unfortunately belong to.
Jun 27th 2016, 9:39 am
#36
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,625
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
As someone who is living in Spain, I would like to thank the British electorate for voting for Brexit and effectively becoming the canary in the coalmine
However, I sceptically expect no Brexit to take place at all. Boris and friends will go to Brussels and get some minor amendment to immigration law, and come back to Britain singing of success so no need to invoke article 50. That way his friends in the City will be happy
Jun 27th 2016, 9:51 am
#37
BE Positive
Thread Starter
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,980
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
"The British Way". "The Bulldog Spirit".
Do you truly equate this to the Second World War? Does it gird the loins to revel in past might, pomp and cicumstance?
The future of humanity, not just that of an island, depends on cooperation, commensense and the shared goal of a peaceful prosperous future.
All of which have been given an isolationist finger.
Is reform required? Of course! Is neoliberalism and austerity a failed project? Of course!
But that should never mean burning your bridges through a "bulldog spirit" which is rank nationalism by another name.
Rant over. Time to move on and deal with it. (And probably time to delete this thread as politics really has no place on the forum).
Do you truly equate this to the Second World War? Does it gird the loins to revel in past might, pomp and cicumstance?
The future of humanity, not just that of an island, depends on cooperation, commensense and the shared goal of a peaceful prosperous future.
All of which have been given an isolationist finger.
Is reform required? Of course! Is neoliberalism and austerity a failed project? Of course!
But that should never mean burning your bridges through a "bulldog spirit" which is rank nationalism by another name.
Rant over. Time to move on and deal with it. (And probably time to delete this thread as politics really has no place on the forum).
There is no 'loin-girding' in my post, if you see it that way, I can't stop that. Also you say you are ranting, which you have the right to do, as you lost an historic vote for one of the biggest decisions we have ever made. This was a decision of the PEOPLE in a fair and democratic voting process. Your other comments of middle fingers etc are far more sensationalist than my comments, and I reject them.
We can create a new Britain outside the immense, beaurocratic and increasingly federal EU structure, and remain friends and trading partners. I believe we have the smarts to do that.
This thread must NOT be deleted, if someone censors this discussion of such importance in our history, then why have a discussion forum?
We don't agree on much, on this subject, but I respect your right to have and publish an opinion.
BTW this thread has NOT had the back-stabbing , trolling, etc that I've seen on MANY other threads of far less importance.
We can and will survive this, and come out better and stronger, after a period of 'mess-cleaning', and do it in the time-honoured and successful British way
Jon
Last edited by Jon-Bxl; Jun 27th 2016 at 9:53 am.
Jun 27th 2016, 10:05 am
#38
Forum Regular
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 46
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
As someone who is living in Spain, I would like to thank the British electorate for voting for Brexit and effectively becoming the canary in the coalmine
However, I sceptically expect no Brexit to take place at all. Boris and friends will go to Brussels and get some minor amendment to immigration law, and come back to Britain singing of success so no need to invoke article 50. That way his friends in the City will be happy
+1This article takes a different perspective, but, reading between the lines, draws a similar conclusion.
http://indy100.independent.co.uk/art...ue--bJhqBql0VZ
Jun 27th 2016, 10:38 am
#39
On the road again.
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: On Top of the World
Posts: 17,507
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
The British people gave the right answer last week, and did it the 'British way' ( i.e to stop following the 'EU way')
Under the 'EU way' (I think) we may need to debate a new referendum due to the petition rules.
Under the 'Irish way' the EU discussion dragged on with multiple referenda, till the elite got what they wanted, after being snubbed, taking enough people with them who lost initially.
Sorry to the 48% that lost this. I know how upset you are, and we will definitely have many troubles expected/unexpected. In the course of the next 3 years, or so, many Brexiters will have voter regret. ALREADY our government and opposition is facing a crisis, there is a threat to our United Kingdom. Already both sides are backtracking, and word smithing all the fear/benefits statements they made pre-referendum. Politicians!!
Note there's nothing to say that the EU system, will not have huge problems also. We have been lurching from many over the years, financial crisis, Greece, PIIGS, migration, ERM, etc etc. (Too many to mention) Remain is NOT calm sailing. How many times have we seen on TV, multiple meetings of finance ministers, leaders etc on the steps in Brussels making stressed comments after e.g all night (quote) 'Crisis meetings'!
Ibelieve that we need to get the broom out and clear the mess, and all this is part of a long clean-up process. I don't deny that we will have mess at the end, but I believe it won't be as bad as this one. Lesser of two 'evils'. I also believe there will be some pain on the way.
During pre-electioneering processes we get lots of blather about how wonderful life will be if you vote for them. The reality is that the choice is the the lesser of 'evils'. E.g voting goes 40% to A, 30% to B, 20% to C. The loser number 2 (B) will say 'you didn't get 60% of the vote!'. The winner says 'Ah yes, but you didn't get 70%!!'
But it was a historic decision, perhaps the biggest decision we have ever made, and we are sailing into new waters. But that's our history, we travelled from our small islands, through stormy uncharted waters, with lots of problems and dispute, dissension, debate and even infighting.
By eventually coming together we did pretty well. I hope in time we can put this highly emotional charged period of debate in context with the democratic decision made, and work together for the next chapter of our history.
Its the bulldog spirit....
...its the 'British way'.
I prefer it to the other 'ways'
Jon
Under the 'EU way' (I think) we may need to debate a new referendum due to the petition rules.
Under the 'Irish way' the EU discussion dragged on with multiple referenda, till the elite got what they wanted, after being snubbed, taking enough people with them who lost initially.
Sorry to the 48% that lost this. I know how upset you are, and we will definitely have many troubles expected/unexpected. In the course of the next 3 years, or so, many Brexiters will have voter regret. ALREADY our government and opposition is facing a crisis, there is a threat to our United Kingdom. Already both sides are backtracking, and word smithing all the fear/benefits statements they made pre-referendum. Politicians!!
Note there's nothing to say that the EU system, will not have huge problems also. We have been lurching from many over the years, financial crisis, Greece, PIIGS, migration, ERM, etc etc. (Too many to mention) Remain is NOT calm sailing. How many times have we seen on TV, multiple meetings of finance ministers, leaders etc on the steps in Brussels making stressed comments after e.g all night (quote) 'Crisis meetings'!
Ibelieve that we need to get the broom out and clear the mess, and all this is part of a long clean-up process. I don't deny that we will have mess at the end, but I believe it won't be as bad as this one. Lesser of two 'evils'. I also believe there will be some pain on the way.
During pre-electioneering processes we get lots of blather about how wonderful life will be if you vote for them. The reality is that the choice is the the lesser of 'evils'. E.g voting goes 40% to A, 30% to B, 20% to C. The loser number 2 (B) will say 'you didn't get 60% of the vote!'. The winner says 'Ah yes, but you didn't get 70%!!'
But it was a historic decision, perhaps the biggest decision we have ever made, and we are sailing into new waters. But that's our history, we travelled from our small islands, through stormy uncharted waters, with lots of problems and dispute, dissension, debate and even infighting.
By eventually coming together we did pretty well. I hope in time we can put this highly emotional charged period of debate in context with the democratic decision made, and work together for the next chapter of our history.
Its the bulldog spirit....
...its the 'British way'.
I prefer it to the other 'ways'
Jon
As Junckers said, we will keep going back and asking the question till we get the answer we want.
I see Osborne has emerged from his bunker and said there will not be an emergency budget as he previously threatened, surprise,surprise.
Jun 27th 2016, 10:54 am
#40
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
What's everybody all worked up about?
FTSE 100 surrenders £74bn in two days, pound slides and banking stocks plunge in Brexit aftermath
Trading halted on 10 stocks amid Brexit-inspired volatility
This morning trading in 10 stocks on the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 were temporarily halted due to volatility.
When stocks move by more than 8% from their opening price an automatic circuit breaker kicks in, stocks are suspended and they enter a temporary auction period for five minutes.
Pound plunges past Friday's lows to 31-year low of $1.3221
Sell-off intensifies across FX markets, the pound is now down 3.3% today.
It has now plunged past Friday's lows to 31-year low of $1.3221
FTSE 100 surrenders £74bn in two days, pound slides and banking stocks plunge in Brexit aftermath
Trading halted on 10 stocks amid Brexit-inspired volatility
This morning trading in 10 stocks on the FTSE 100 and FTSE 250 were temporarily halted due to volatility.
When stocks move by more than 8% from their opening price an automatic circuit breaker kicks in, stocks are suspended and they enter a temporary auction period for five minutes.
Pound plunges past Friday's lows to 31-year low of $1.3221
Sell-off intensifies across FX markets, the pound is now down 3.3% today.
It has now plunged past Friday's lows to 31-year low of $1.3221
Jun 27th 2016, 11:19 am
#41
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
About 200billion $ wiped off UK value moving it down from 5th rate to 6th rate global economy. Interestingly this would've paid 24 years of EU contributions!
Jun 27th 2016, 4:04 pm
#43
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: Andalucia Spain
Posts: 672
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
That's about right, our generation has destroyed the country for up and coming generations through greed and xenophobia. What do they have to look forward to? It's our generation that has ruined Their chances. Now they are destined to being little islanders as well, I have apologised to my 23 year old son for the idiotic generation which I unfortunately belong to.
Yet 83% of the over 55's managed to drag their arthritic, pox-ridden frames, down to the polling office.
If the young had taken the responsibility to vote the referendum may well have gone the way of remain.
Jun 27th 2016, 4:07 pm
#44
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,675
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
Only 36% of young fit and healthy voters in the 18-24 managed to vote. http://images.omegaowners.com/forum/.../undecided.gif
Yet 83% of the over 55's managed to drag their arthritic, pox-ridden frames, down to the polling office.
If the young had taken the responsibility to vote the referendum may well have gone the way of remain.
Yet 83% of the over 55's managed to drag their arthritic, pox-ridden frames, down to the polling office.
If the young had taken the responsibility to vote the referendum may well have gone the way of remain.
Jun 27th 2016, 8:29 pm
#45
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 827
Re: Historic moment: EU Referendum
The reason that the government is acting like a rabbit in the headlights is because the result was unexpected. But not just unexpected, actually totally unbelievably unexpected, almost in an impossibly unexpected way.
Why?
Because the result was rigged.
How can it have been rigged, the leave campaign won?
Can anyone honestly believe that the UK government, with all its powers and secret services and GCHQ and MI6 would have allowed an honest result to be so close?
48/52? Get real folks!
They rigged the referendum but they seriously underestimated the number of leave votes.
The result should have been more like 45/55 to remain but the polls were way out in their estimations and consequently, the additional 5-10 percent vote-stuffing just wasn't enough to swing it.
That's the reason why the government are running around like headless chickens. They just hadn't considered that leave would win. It wasn't in their calculations at all. This result wasn't planned for. it wasn't supposed to be this way.
Cameron had to fall on his sword, Osborne went into hiding for three days, they just don't know what to do.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but when you look at it like this, you know it makes sense.
Why?
Because the result was rigged.
How can it have been rigged, the leave campaign won?
Can anyone honestly believe that the UK government, with all its powers and secret services and GCHQ and MI6 would have allowed an honest result to be so close?
48/52? Get real folks!
They rigged the referendum but they seriously underestimated the number of leave votes.
The result should have been more like 45/55 to remain but the polls were way out in their estimations and consequently, the additional 5-10 percent vote-stuffing just wasn't enough to swing it.
That's the reason why the government are running around like headless chickens. They just hadn't considered that leave would win. It wasn't in their calculations at all. This result wasn't planned for. it wasn't supposed to be this way.
Cameron had to fall on his sword, Osborne went into hiding for three days, they just don't know what to do.
Call me a conspiracy theorist but when you look at it like this, you know it makes sense.