Jon-Bxl

Agreed..... I was confused with this thread as this is something we may have discussed before..... that's why I was specific about golf course and golf club etc in my previous post.

Whatever rumours there are - and I hope this isn't a "smoke/fire" thing, we need the businesses and the golf course to keep on going ..... maybe there are imperfections with all of them, but its all we've got!

We should be careful about shooting ourselves in the foot.... with these rumours. But its good that we are discussing it now and that Sam raised the point in post 1, so we can discuss.....

Wow - how many mixed metaphors was that in this post !

guesswork

I am pretty sure Aymerich were in trouble before and and some sort of buy out happened. This is probably the reason for the discussion on the older thread

EsuriJohn

Aymerich have been having cash problems for the last couple of years. About 12 months ago a large cash injection was supposed to steady the ship but things got worse and this Spring they abandoned the East Course and reduced watering (which costs €30,000 a quarter) on the West Course. It was about then that the eagle eyed members noticed that the bank account that claimed the fees was not Aymerich and was located in the same part of Spain as Fadesa. Fadesa are the freeholder for both courses and Aymerich had a 20 year lease. It may be that Fadesa has taken the management back in house or that a new sub contractor has been appointed.

Two things are certain the East Course is closed for now and the girls have a contract to run the club bar and restaurant which they seem to be continuing to execute. In addition the West Course is open and being played.

Why everything has to be so mysterious is anyones guess but maybe members will be told something soon.

Jon-Bxl

Very strange, if Aymerich sold the golf course lease to another company, then them going into administration should have no impact.

However if Aymerich still owns the courses, via the lease, and are in administration, then I wonder how they will be able to keep up the cost of maintaining the course.

This is troubling for the future, as the golf club depends on the golfers using the course to keep open, I think.

I really hope there is a plan that keeps the course open as I believe the club is a going concern.... because losing both will be a huge shame to us especially after the situation with Jags. The golfers and non-golfers would be very unhappy.

So lets hope John is right above about the possibility of another contractor taking over. Or Fadesa themselves directly managing this - though I have no real confidence in Fadesa....

The tea leaves aren't looking good ....... sadly
Jon

EsuriJohn

I don't think that it was that kind of lease and Aymeric are already out of the picture. I think that Fadesa have already "repossessed" the courses and are either maintaining them direct or have a sub-contractor.

This all started in the spring and the bills were sent out with a different name and Bank.

Jon-Bxl

Thanks John - that's why I posted to try and understand the bottom line. I was getting confused. And you know a lot... in fact 'Yoda-man' pun intended (MTFBWY)

So if Aymerich is out - we can forget their financial woes. They were mentioned on the thread. I can ignore them now.

However the rumour is that the course is in trouble, meaning the new 'owners' are in trouble too.

If Fadesa is back in control, I worry. Why? Is a golf course high on their priority list.. or even their core business? They have a lot of debts to pay, including community charges in CE and loads of other places... as well as billions in other historical problems.

I also have little confidence in them - generally.

Their best interest IMHO is to subcontract it. You've mentioned this as a possibility. It is in our best interest too. Lets hope that the sub-contractor (SC) is financially viable and has a commitment to deliver an improved and quality service.

However you mention that the money is going directly to a Fadesa account. No sign (yet) of a SC. Mystery surrounds and in these troubled times, with me bitten by experience - I feel a troubling sensation in my 'waters' (incl the tea laves and that crystal ball ) I really hope that 2012 doesn't go down badly in the annals of CE history - of us losing most of the (few) social places we have.

The course shutting down could/would easily have a snowball effect: Anyway lets hope that this is a glitch and that the Course continues on, the club continues to offer a social service and Jags comes back on line... I dont think a golf course and 3 social venues are too much to ask for - especially after all that was promised when we signed on the dotted line and handed over our money. I also think we need to make CE as attractive as possible for any visitor..... and us of course.

Jon

Jon-Bxl

Hi

Being concerned with all this discussion I called someone I know, who has spoken with M-F. Here's what I heard.....

The golf course is a going concern and will stay open, they are looking for a new sub-contractor = SC.

The development still represents a significant investment for them and so they want the course operational. This makes sense to me.

Things will change but the course - and the club will still be there. Whether they hand the contract for the club onwards to the current 'Dourada team' hasn't been considered, the new SC will make that decision. BTW As much as I like 2 of the girls working there, (amongst our favourite bar-managers anywhere), I personally wouldn't mind seeing this open to a new tender - and spark it up a bit. But if it stays as it is - I wont be complaining - the possible alternative discussed above is not good!

My waters are less troubled, but this is Spain and there's a lot of problems, but I feel much better after this discussion.

Thanks

Jon

mrtrumper

Thanks J+K, You always seem to get to the bottom of things, which isn't always easy with Fadessa - good work!

All I would ad is that although the West course is being played, certainly, whenever I have looked there has been nothing like the number of people on to cover the large expenses of running the club (ie pro shop, marshalls) and maintaining the course.

If Fadessa are running it now - do we really think they will keep running something which is losing them money ....

Do they still own the hotel? the commercial centre? Maybe the golf course adding value to these will influence their actions? Hopefully!

At least the weathers nice

Sam Greenfield

MT wasnt there someone interested in the hotel a while back - if that was sold I think CE would really take off as it would drag in golfers - houses would probably sell etc etc etc xxxxx

Jon-Bxl

Agreed, MT, re J+K - also with all the CERA work done - so I nick-named him 'Yoda' above + will do so until you see the black eye + high pitched voice

Also I am very suspicious of M-F after previous experiences with them, and even though I feel better about the course, as long as they are in charge, I will not feel fully comfortable.

Interesting that you have seen less people, and question the business coming in to support everything - and yet I have heard that its a going concern. I would tend to support your gut feel based on what you have seen as opposed to what I have heard, as I have heard many things from them in the past that have not panned out. Like for example being at a presentation of the Comm Centre, CC, with officers of the company, presenting a deal for rental, and that evening we hear that Fadesa has gone bust! They still presented a deal they could not administrate, or work to prepare the site for the potential business. They must have known about this during the pitch. At that meeting a manager told me that negotiations were in place and the hotel was to likely to be sold and within 6 months work would start to prepare it! I realise they have to be economical, but perhaps not with the truth!

My understanding is that the hotel and CC are still theirs....

Jon

mrtrumper

I was referring specifically to the golf course. I know how much it costs to maintain a golf course in England - it is scary. The course is also on a much bigger footprint than most courses back home. That all means for extra cutting, extra watering, extra fertilizing They have the pro to pay; the rangers; the green-keepers. They then have the machinery to buy and maintain; fertilisers (very expensive) huge water bills, rates, upkeep of the buildings other ancillary expenses (2,000 euro a day?) I just don't see they are taking the money to cover that. In fairness I don't know how many members they have. If there is a lot (I'm talking 500) of non paying members that could change the position. Is there?

Course still looks lovely at the moment though and ideal time to play - lovely weather!

Jon-Bxl

Yes, I understood, thanks. I just rambled on about additional stuff in my post! For me the golf course's 'footfall' (got that word from the Apprentice on TV!) is critical in CE. I agree we need to get a bunch of people using it, paying money to pay the costs, as a lot depends on it. Like the club and maybe even Jag's... and most importantly, for me, this all leads to the attractiveness of CE (even though a non-golfers, one of the main reasons we bought was because we were on and overlooking a lovely golf course)

Fadesa say its a going concern and yet people like you, that know all the costs, are concerned. And I'd rather give credence to experience over talk, especially from MF!

I was speaking to Gavin last year (resto owner in town - for those new members) and he told me that his 'high season' was when the golfers came after the summer heat. Therefore was expecting business to be good in this period. Of course he serves other courses too, but CE must be important.

Great to hear the weather is lovely, Im sitting at home with the noise of a rainstorm as I write cant wait to get back ... very soon


So come on, golfers, buy your air tickets! And come to a wonderful corner of the world - bring your checkbooks as there's some great property deals to be had
Jon

MikeCol

Don't where you get the impression that the weather is good, overcast with rain yesterday with more to come today and tomorrow. B

Jon-Bxl

Hi Bryony re-read post 26 from MT and the last line... He said that "Course still looks lovely at the moment though and ideal time to play - lovely weather!".. I obviously responded to that in post 27 with my comments. I'm not there right now - so don't know.

Sorry that its overcast and rainy - but I heard some people were OK with it as we need some rain (apparently). But lets hope the sun comes back very soon... and also the golf course woes are resolved, as this topic on the thread is critical IMHO.

Hope all's well in our great corner of the world... see you soon...

Thanks
Jon

MikeCol

Yes it is critical, but as I have said previously its better to wait and get info directly from the horses mouth (so to speak) rather than from people who are not directly involved and don't even play golf. Bryony